In his early 20s, Jaime Blaustein was addicted, lost, and constantly moving in and out of rehab. Today, he’s a former investment banker and founder of a clinic for offering mental health support to people with all backgrounds and struggles. This week, we learn from him about leadership, recovery, facing the unknown, and holding yourself accountable.
Action First (ft. Jaime Blaustein)
Discover one man’s journey from addict to entrepreneur
OPENING QUOTE:
“I think surrender has negative connotations, but it's really that you win by waving the white flag sometimes and surrendering. And on the heels of that surrender, another principle really early on, those early days of sobriety eight and a half years ago, was act your way into right thinking, don't think your way into right acting.”
—Jaime Blaustein
GUEST BIO:
Jaime Blaustein is Co-Founder and CEO of the Sylvia Brafman Mental Health Center. After battling addiction for several years in his late teens-early twenties, Jaime is now leading a team of health professionals helping others through their tough times. After recovering, Jaime gained his MBA, worked as a mutual fund manager at Wells Fargo and Lord Abbett, then became an investment banker at Credit Suisse in its Global Industrials Coverage Group in New York. Here he was responsible for advising clients in the basic material sector on strategic matters, including mergers, acquisitions, divestitures, leveraged buyouts, restructurings, and various debt and equity financings. But in September 2021, Jaime decided to give up his investment banking career to found the center for those with mental health challenges seeking support.
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[12:24] When Constructive Turns Destructive
Moderation’s essential role
While Jaime once battled with obviously destructive substances and habits, even positive habits can turn destructive if taken to extreme. He uses the example of exercise. An hour a day of exercise is obviously beneficial for physical and mental health. Six hours a day at the detriment of your family life, career, and social life represents a potential addiction.
[15:12] Take Action on the Mindset Will Follow
Inspiration is an effect, not a cause
We’re always told that by shifting our mindset, we’ll inspire change in our actions. But Jaime suggests that the opposite is often more powerful— when we begin acting in a way that’s representative of what we hope to believe, our mindset follows. Don’t wait for inspiration before acting. Let your actions inspire your thoughts.
[18:58] Empathy & Accountability
A delicate balance all leaders must strike
In recovery, Jaime learned the importance of personal accountability— and accountability to others. In his career, he balances the two as a leader. The people around him know that he will always expect a great deal from them— but will always balance those expectations with genuine empathy and understanding.
[37:42] Turning Fear Into Excitement
Turn the unknown into your greatest motivator
Fear of the unknown can cripple us. Alternatively, we can look toward the unknown future with a sense of thrilling excitement. Anything is possible, and adopting this mindset can help us escape the anxiety that comes with trying to predict an uncertain future. Then we’re empowered to go out and make that future for ourselves.
[43:45] What Recovery and Leadership Have in Common
Holding yourself and others accountable matters
We’re taught to give ourselves the space to make mistakes, and that’s an essential part of both life and leadership. But it’s also critical to be frank and honest with yourself and others about where you may be falling short— and take steps to get yourself back on track. That’s how we improve, day in and day out.
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CREDITS:
Jaime Blaustein:
I think surrender has negative connotations, but it's really that you win by waving the white flag sometimes and surrendering. And on the heels of that surrender, another principle really early on, those early days of sobriety eight and a half years ago, was act your way into right thinking, don't think your way into right acting.
Chris Roebuck:
Welcome to Perspectives from the Top. I'm Chris Roebuck, global keynote speaker with unique leadership experience from military, business, and government, bestselling author, and your guide to greater success. Together, we'll discover powerful insights from the world's leading thinkers, doers, and trailblazers, the must know trends, thought provoking revelations, and practical actions you can use immediately. This is your exclusive and personal shop of insight and inspiration to help you get to the top.
Chris Roebuck:
Welcome to you and all of our Perspectives from the Top community, now in 45 countries across the world. It's great to share the insights of such successful people with you to help you get to where you want to be. Now today's guest is Jaime Blaustein, Co-Founder and CEO of the Sylvia Brafman Mental Health Center. After battling addiction for several years in his late teens and early twenties and going in and out of seven treatment facilities before finally getting clean, Jaime is now leading a team of health professionals helping others through their tough times.
Chris Roebuck:
After recovering, Jaime gained his MBA, and after a time in Wells Fargo and Lord Abbett, a mutual fund manager, he became an investment banker at Credit Suisse in its Global Industrials Coverage Group in New York. Here he was responsible for advising clients in the basic material sector on strategic matters, including mergers, acquisitions, divestitures, leveraged buyouts, restructurings, and various debt and equity financings. But in September 2021, he decided to give up his investment banking career to found the center for those with mental health challenges seeking support.
Chris Roebuck:
So Jaime, welcome to Perspectives from the Top, and thanks for taking your time to join us. One of the things I ask all of our guests, because this applies to everybody, CEOs or whoever they be, is we like to hear about whether there was somebody in your past, a family member, a mentor, a teacher who was the person who inspired you in some way to get to where you are now. Was there one or a couple of people that sort of fall into that category of people who have truly inspired you?
Jaime Blaustein:
Thanks, Chris, really glad to be on, and appreciate you taking the time. For me, I think it was a confluence of a few different relationships, two in particular. One was Ian, who I consider to be a mentor. He helped me tremendously in early recovery, and I would consider him more of the personal influencer, if you will, and just showed me how to live life, that the whole reason that we're here is really to be of maximum service. And he really showed me the value of just doing the next right thing and the fact that external and internal success are not mutually exclusive, that we can be true to ourselves and doing the next right thing and also be successful, and one doesn't need to say anything bad about the need for the other.
Jaime Blaustein:
And then my stepfather, Michael Epstein, also kind of borders on personal as well, but really professionally, he showed me the value of hard work, putting your head down and grinding, and also just doing the next right thing, both in life and in business.
Chris Roebuck:
It's interesting that one person can have such an impact on somebody else, particularly going to your circumstances when they're having a tough time, and give them the ability to see perhaps the bigger picture, which links to your past. And you were a really successful guy at school, clearly driven and focused, but at 19, many of us sort of start slight going off the rails because that's what happens at 19 and 20, but you started this downhill slide into addiction with drugs, which eventually got to the point that your life was genuinely in danger.
Chris Roebuck:
Now, maybe it's worth me saying to listeners here that, to be honest, everybody who's listening to this wants to feel good about something in their lives and that's natural, and we want something that sort of takes us out of the day to day, the mundane run of the normal stuff that we go through. And we all sort of achieve this by doing something, whether that's extreme sports, whether that's gambling, whether that's legal drug use or any of those things that allow us to meet this desire, or perhaps allow us to avoid things that we're not really enjoying or environments where that happens, but sometimes that can push us into an addiction. And can you explain how those sort of factors came together for you?
Jaime Blaustein:
Sure. I think to some extent everybody, whether addict or not, is looking for some sort of dopamine hit-
Chris Roebuck:
Absolutely.
Jaime Blaustein:
... either subconsciously or deliberately. For me, I attribute my addiction personally to... Sure, there's always going to be an interplay of genetic and environmental factors, but I know full well that genetically, I was very predisposed to this thing called addiction, which, if I'm going to define it, it's... we call it a physical allergy, meaning I start putting a chemical in my body and my body says, "Go, I need more." What the mechanism there is, I'm not positive. Some people say it's an enzyme thing in terms of how we process chemicals. Some people say it's a chemical imbalance. Some people say it's a gene. Some say it's a bundle of genes, where if you have X number out of a hundred, then you have addiction.
Jaime Blaustein:
I don't really care anymore. I've given up trying to understand the why. I just know that my experience confirms that when I start, I have a very, very difficult time controlling and moderating. The second piece to addiction is this mental obsession. It's the fact that somehow I'm able to, in my case, get stopped, whether that's a treatment center or some sort of emotional bottom. In my mind, it tells me, "You know what? I could do one. I deserve it. Nobody will know." Any one of a million different lies that I'll believe and start again. And then lastly, it's this sort of... we call it a spiritual malady. A doctor would call it anxiety, depression.
Jaime Blaustein:
And so I had those three things sort of embedded in me. My father was a really bad addict. My mom's side, we have a lot of that too, but there was nothing on paper growing up where you said, "Oh, his life is so bad. He needs to sort of wash his troubles away with substances." I always felt that pull, starting at age 15 or 16, where it just affected me differently than it did other people. And so, yeah, you're right, by age 19, I would say I lost the power of choice. My mind was obsessed. My body was addicted.
Jaime Blaustein:
And so I view this as a spectrum, as opposed to black and white. And on that spectrum, I think there's a line and that line represents the power of choice and the power to moderate. And I think there's a lot of people that flirt with that line. There's a lot of people that are over it, which are addicts. And then there's people that aren't really close to it. But I think that same quality... having that addictive personality can also make people successful. So the key is, for anyone really is knowing, "What am I powerless over? What behaviors? What behaviors or substances can I not control or moderate once I start?" And then number two is, "How much unmanageability occurs in my life, both internally and externally as a result of that?" Because if... whatever, you like to throw back a few drinks to wind down at the end of the day, but you can get up and go to work and you're generally happy, I don't think there's a problem with that, but the issue becomes when you just can't stop, you can't stay stopped, and it's creating issues in your life.
Chris Roebuck:
I think it's fair to say that this sort of discussion about the point of choice, the point of moderation, to some degree is about all behaviors, it's not just about addiction, it's the drugs, gambling, whatever. It's the simple fact that we as human beings, through all the neuroscience and all of that, we like to have a buzz, or if we're in an environment we don't like, we take avoidance action to get out of it. And it's whether or not the seeking of that buzz, it might take you down a path of extreme sports and for example, free climbing. So for listeners who don't understand what that is, that's essential climbing up mountains without a rope, which means that if you make a mistake, it's the last mistake you ever make.
Chris Roebuck:
So that there is this desire, the dopamine to have this buzz, but you have said that for some people it's difficult that you go over that point that you can control it. And I think, whilst we are sort of focusing on the drug side with you, I think it's worth all of our listeners thinking about, are there things in their lives where they are on that edge of not being able to control it? We're talking about leadership here. And I've seen for example in the office world, and perhaps both of us have seen in the investment banking world, some people have a fundamental behavioral issue about anger management and their inability to control inner emotions. So I just think that it's a reflective point for everybody to look at themselves and to say, "Actually, am I in control all the time, or are there times when actually I'm slightly out of control that I need to think about in whatever sense?" Does that make sense to you?
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. And what I'd say too is, I mean, the core question becomes, "Why am I disturbed, or at least not at ease in my natural state without any stimuli whatsoever?" Because you're right, there's varying degrees of powerlessness, but also, to this day, I use things, I just don't use alcohol and drugs, but there's oftentimes... and luckily I'm self aware, but I certainly use food. And I don't feel bad about this, it's just the human condition, but there's all these little things that we do, social media, screen time throughout the day, it's a distraction from feeling how we feel in our natural state with no distractions. And so it's something as a society that is important to look at, "Why am I restless, irritable and discontented in my natural state? And what are the different avenues that I'm using to get out of my feeling in myself?"
Chris Roebuck:
And it just goes to some of those more simple things about how do you get out of that, by even the most basic going to the wall or getting your dopamine hit in the gym?
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. And the challenging thing is that some of these behaviors are constructive in a way. The question really is, what role is it playing in your or life? For instance, I like to work out every day. I certainly get a... call it whatever you want, a dopamine or a serotonin hit from it. That's not a problem. I spend an hour, hour and 15 minutes, and I go about my day and it helps my physical and mental health, but if I'm spending eight hours a day and I'm neglecting my relationships and my work and all that, then obviously that's where the unmanageability comes in.
Chris Roebuck:
Absolutely.
Jaime Blaustein:
So it's a fine line, and I think for introspective purposes, the key question is, what is my motive? Am I running from something, or am I doing it because it's good for me objectively?
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah. That's a very great question that sort of the people should think about. Now, you tried to rehabilitate without success six times, and then on the seventh, you succeeded, primarily driven by the realization, I suppose, that you might die if you didn't, but when you reflect on that addiction experience at that moment, what's it encouraged you to adopt as sort of key principles of life going forwards?
Jaime Blaustein:
Hm. That's a great question. So let me clarify slightly. I did believe that I was going to die if I didn't stop, but I also felt that way in rehab number four, five, and six. So for me, when you're in active addiction and you're in the depths, that actually almost doesn't dissuade you that much and in a way, it's actually appealing. So for me, it was almost like a spiritual surrender and also an intellectual feeling that I'm backed in a corner and for the first time, I don't believe I can think my way out of this.
Jaime Blaustein:
So I believed I was going to die, but I finally realized, you know what? I can't listen to my mind when it comes to beating this. You can't fix a broken mind with a broken mind. And so the first key principle really was surrender. I don't know what I don't know out. And maybe I'd better take some actions that people have been telling me to take that I chose not to. That principle of surrender is really... I think surrender has negative connotations, but it's really that you win by waving the white flag sometimes and surrendering. And following on the heels of that surrender, another principle really early on, those early days of sobriety eight and a half years ago, was act your way into right thinking, don't think your way into right acting.
Jaime Blaustein:
Whether you're an addict or not, a lot of people, they try to think and will themselves to be different, and the truth is sometimes we don't have the needed power to do that. And so I started taking steps that didn't really make sense to me, that I didn't want to do, but I trust again, that I don't necessarily know what's best for me in my mind because my mind is driven by a lot of things, fear, subconscious thoughts, traumas, and what happens is when I lead with the action, the mind follows as opposed to the other way around. I start doing these things and my mind starts to feel better and my mind starts to see things clearly. So acting your way into right thinking.
Jaime Blaustein:
And then I think the objective of all of this recovery, once you sort of get stabilized after a few months is, how do I feel as comfortable as I possibly can in my own skin, without creating harms, without hurting myself? And some of those principles involve of doing the next right thing, getting out of the outcome business, right? Doing what I'm supposed to do, doing the best that I can, putting the energy and effort forth to do that, but not being tied to the outcome, and trusting that it's going to unfold as it's supposed to, which is somewhat of a paradox, because at least in the US, were taught you work hard and you work smart, you can get whatever you want, you can be whatever you want to be. And so it almost was sort of unlearning that and realizing all I have control over is what I do. And the ironic part about that is that the result tends to be way better when I take my hands off the wheel and I say, "I'm going to focus on my own paper and do what I'm supposed to do." And the results tend to be way better than when I'm trying to manipulate and connive and will the outcome that I think I need in order to be okay.
Chris Roebuck:
Interesting. Interesting. So the moral is sort of, try not to turn the world into what you want it to be, but just get on with the world as it is.
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. I mean, that's the key principle of getting better from addiction and recovery, and honestly, to overcome that spiritual malady. And when I say spiritual malady, again, a doctor might call it anxiety, depression. The question is, what is the source driving it? Is it a chemical imbalance, or is it an outlook on the world? I'm referring to the outlook on the world. I can't make the world do what I want it to do. If everybody did exactly as I want them to do all the time, life would be great, but the truth is that they don't. I'm not the center of the world, and so surrendering to that fact and believing that there's something going on with how the world works, and I tend to put good out there and do the right thing and it tends to cooperate with me and I don't feel like I'm swimming upstream anymore, that's a core principle that I had to carry into this new life with me.
Chris Roebuck:
That's a beautiful point for listeners, the fact that if you do good, the world tends to cooperate with you. Fundamentally, because if you do good, other people will help you and cooperate with you. It's that simple. So you then went off and you successfully did an MBA, went back into financial services, into Credit Suisse, working in industrials. And particularly in financial services, over all of those roles you've had, you must have seen good leaders and bad leaders. So sort of tell listeners the sort of things that you saw which helped you understand, essentially what good leadership can deliver, and the impact of less than good leadership.
Jaime Blaustein:
I definitely saw the full spectrum of leadership styles and the impact that they have on employees. I found that the best leaders are those that can strike this delicate balance of leading with empathy while also holding people accountable. And that's tough because everybody in banking is type A, it's very intense. There's some sort of hierarchy sort built into it, and it's incredibly demanding and there's a very low tolerance for any sort of lack of attention to detail, any sort of intellectual weakness. But I found that what separates the good leaders from the okay leaders and to a greater degree the destructive leaders that make people below them... put them in a bad spot mentally, is that the way the feedback is delivered. If it's delivered in an empathetic way, it's solution focused and people can become better, and if it's not, they become fearful, they become resentful, and their performance begins to suffer as a result.
Jaime Blaustein:
Some other items that I saw play out with certain managing directors and group co-heads, this idea of taking an interest in how people are doing. Just the simple question, how are you doing? Not, what's going on at work or [inaudible 00:20:31] How are you doing? It's critical that people believe their leaders care about them. And how are you doing is a very disarming question in a way, and very few people ask it in a non-work context. It's critical. I call it real talk. Instead of the work jargon, the fake conversation, what's really going on? How are you doing?
Jaime Blaustein:
In addition to that, just being able to walk shoulder to shoulder. It's tough in banking, there's a hierarchy for sure. And the people that are managing directors typically grew up in banking and so they're sort of conditioned to operate a certain way, but there are folks that still bring this humanistic element into the job and that's something that I really try to draw from in my current role.
Chris Roebuck:
For listeners, what you need to know that both Jaime and I operated within the investment banking world for a number of years and perhaps it's worth saying that it is a very unusual environment, it's highly pressured, it's success addicted, it's unforgiving, it's perfectionist, and in many cases autocratic, and the reason people tolerate that is because the rewards are so great if you get it right. But the problem is that it is an environment that pushes people to the limit. And talking about the things that we are discussing, Jaime, the level of addictive behavior that is then generated by that world is, in my understanding, significantly higher than it is in a lot of other businesses.
Jaime Blaustein:
100%. I think there's a correlation and a causation component to this. The correlation being the obsessiveness, the relentlessness, the striving for perfection. I think people that have those qualities are more likely to be self destructive in certain ways and to utilize drugs and alcohol. I think by the same token, if applied to work without being too self destructive, it can actually make you quite successful.
Chris Roebuck:
Well, see that's the point that I think is very powerful because... given your experiences, you look at the world of personal life, the world of work, through a very, very different lens to many other people. And you were a very, very focused person even before your addiction, when you were at school. You've been focused ever since, and I'm now sensing that you're getting real purpose from what you're doing at work. But you raised that interesting point, many people will assume that your addiction was a purely negative experience, but as we discussed, it's possible for you to identify certain positives that actually came out of it that enable you to be better at what you do now, than perhaps you might have been had you not had that negative experience. Can you give us an insight into sort of some of those things?
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent, and I'll just say from the outset that I wouldn't change anything if I could. I mean, if I could go back, I wouldn't change a thing. 100%, it has brought more value positively into my life than negative. Now that's easy to say eight and a half years clean. I know that when I was in it, there were far more negatives associated than positive, but I would say the qualities that I mentioned a minute ago, the relentlessness, the striving [inaudible 00:24:53], if you can channel those things properly, then they can be performance enhancing.
Jaime Blaustein:
But then there's the causation from the actual experiences themselves. And the reason it's a value add is because as a result of being close to death, I had to live a certain way in order to not die, and that way of life involves incorporating a lot of these principles that I've already touched on, which feed into my professional life, so honesty, open-mindedness, integrity, like I said, getting out of the outcome business, not trying to manipulate and control everything. Personally, clearing the channel on a daily basis of all the things that build up. We're like human pressure cookers. You just sort of pack things on and before you know it, the valve needs to be released in some way... resentments, guilt, shame. All of these things that I've had to do in my personal life have led to me showing up a certain way in my professional life, and therefore it's sort of like taking one step back to take five forward. I feel that I'm better off.
Jaime Blaustein:
And by the way, when I was in banking, I felt I saw that firsthand because you graduate from business school and you join a group within a bank that has seven, eight peers that are literally professionally in the same spot as you, and I saw how I was equipped to deal with the volatility of banking and the demanding nature of it, and I saw how others were, and frankly, and I say this was zero ego, I was better equipped to suit up and show up and do it because of those intangible qualities that I mentioned. So I'm actually very grateful for the struggles, and I believe that we learn more from our struggles than from our successes.
Chris Roebuck:
That's a very, very interesting point that the struggles, the things that go wrong, the mistakes, they are learning experiences, and you learn more from those than you do from things that necessarily go well. And it's interesting, you were saying that of all environments you could have moved into, investment banking, given its stresses, given its pressures, given the way people sometimes behave, that your experiences of getting through your addiction actually set you up to tolerate that more effectively than people who hadn't experienced such tough times, which I think is fascinating. But then you gave all of that up to start the Sylvia Brafman Mental Health Center in 2021 with Ben.
Chris Roebuck:
So as a leader in a number of global banks, I can tell our listeners that even if you are not particularly good at investment banking, it's not a badly paid job. So why give up all of that to take a personal risk and set up a mental health center? What was your personal and business analysis for making that jump?
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah. I'll answer that. I want to first just clarify some something you said, I believe that we can come out ahead from the struggles associated with addiction, if we do the work to get better. If you are just white knuckling it and "got to get by another day, don't drink or use drugs no matter what, one more day", it's going to be debilitating, but if you do the work to become better, then you come out ahead. So I just want to draw that distinction.
Jaime Blaustein:
In terms of my rationale for making this jump, you're right, there were personal and professional things that were driving it. So personally, I really... I was always very actively involved in helping others in recovery, in my personal life, and frankly, I was content keeping the two separate. I was content working in banking and just I do this in my personal life, but I did view this as an expanded platform to be able to help more people, and I also viewed the population that struggles with mental health as a very underserved population. I felt like I was doing a good job impacting those struggling purely with addiction, but not necessarily those that struggle with acute anxiety or depression or things like that. And so I wanted to be able to do that and the stars all aligned really with this in terms of how it merged with the professional. So I was, for about a year, talking with a buddy from business school about doing a search fund. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that, but effectively, you raise capital, you look for a business to acquire, you acquire that business with these traditional search fund investors backing you, and then you operate it. So it's almost like a mini SPAC or a mini private equity LBO type investment. And so I was-
Chris Roebuck:
So sorry, for listeners who've not been in investment banking, in simple terms, basically you raise a load of money, you look for an organization to invest in, you invest in, you get it going, and then you sell it to profit, yeah?
Jaime Blaustein:
Exactly. That's right. And there's a very traditional search fund model that was popularized, I think it was Harvard and Stanford. I think both of them will claim that they were the first to make this popular. Harvard teaches a class called Entrepreneurship through Acquisition. Stanford has something else, but the point is, it's a path that some folks take after business school or after some time in banking or consulting. So what I liked about that was it hit certain criteria that were important to me. Number one, I wanted to eventually be my own boss. Number two, I wanted to be a more holistic business professional. I always felt like I wasn't amazing at any one thing in business, but I was very good at a bunch of different things. And then number three is I wanted equity in something. It's great to get paid in a nice bonus and a salary, but I wanted to build something and to be compensated through equity. I'm young and I wanted ownership.
Jaime Blaustein:
So, the search fund hit those three things, but come January 2021, I reconnected with Ben, who owned the fourth rehab that I went to, Destination Hope. He actually kicked me out of rehab. And we reconnected 11 and years later, and he was a great clinical mind, but with limited business experience. I had what he needed, and we decided to partner to start this. And in deliberating, is this something I want to do? I realized, A, it's an industry that I care about. I can help a lot of people, instead of a widget manufacturing company. It was in south Florida in Miami, which I love. I spent a lot of time in Miami. With the search fund you kind of have to be open to going wherever, Arkansas or wherever they want you to go.
Chris Roebuck:
Of course, where money is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jaime Blaustein:
Exactly. And three, it was a better situation from an equity perspective too. I think with a search fund, if you do partnered search, you get anywhere between 20 and 30%. With this, I'm the majority shareholder, so that's a big difference too. So the long and short of it is that it enabled me to be impactful, in terms of helping people, and it allowed me to have more freedom and flexibility in my career, to have more upside, and to utilize and leverage everything that I've learned in business school and banking to go ahead and build something that's my own.
Chris Roebuck:
And something that helps people get through some of the tough times that you've been through. You opened in October 2021, give our listeners a little bit of an insight into what you do. You effectively help people who are going through these tough times, but give us a little bit of insight into the sort of people you are helping and why they come to you. Because it's a mix of those people who are suffering mental health problems, those people who are suffering problems through addiction, those people who are perhaps suffering potentially mental health issues because what's going on at work, so give us a bit of a broad brush overview [inaudible 00:33:38].
Jaime Blaustein:
Yep. So we are a primary mental health treatment center, meaning we help people that struggle with any sort of mental health diagnosis that is severe enough for them to need to go to a place for inpatient. It's technically considered outpatient, but it's really they come live with us, it's inpatient treatment. There's also outpatient as well. So sometimes folks, they just simply can't leave their home or their job and so they do it on an outpatient basis, either virtually or in our center.
Jaime Blaustein:
And so it's really for folks that, they don't necessarily need to be confined to a psych ward, but seeing a therapist once or twice a week won't get the job done. So that's sort of the level of care that we are. Most of the people need to take a pause because their mental illness is running their lives into the ground and they need a pause and to get everything assessed in one place. And so, again, depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizoaffective. We treat pretty much anything except for eating disorders, that's sort of a unique animal. And what we found is that there are drug rehabs on pretty much every corner, especially here in South Florida, but there's very few very good primary mental health treatment centers, meaning you don't need a drug problem to come in there.
Jaime Blaustein:
So we have some folks that have drug problems because drug addiction is a mental illness, but we have a lot of folks that they don't touch drugs or alcohol at all. And so the folks that we treat are struggling, they need a one stop shop, in a way, to look at everything. And our approach really mechanically is we sort of throw the kitchen sink at them and then hone in quickly on what's working. So clinical, medical, spiritual, physical, we have the clinical and medical backbone and a lot of the different avenues that resonate with some, but not others, such as meditation, sound therapy, TMS, EMDR. And different things work for different people, so the goal is if we're going to fail in any one of those areas, we want to fail quickly and then go hard on the stuff that is working for that particular person so that they can walk out of here with a wellness package, if you will, that they can carry into life.
Chris Roebuck:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). So of that group who come and need your help, as we spoke before, because of the fact that there is stress in the workplace and that it can be compounded by issues at home as well, you were saying that there are a percentage of people who come and see you, not because of any preexisting problem, but because of stress at work. Could you just give us an insight into that?
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah. The human experience and the human psyche is very complex, and it's challenging to know what environmental and what physiological and what biological factors are driving how one feels. I mean, that's ultimately the output is how do you feel, and how are you able to show up to life? There's no doubt that... I always say, finance and romance. Those are the two external factors that people can get thrown in a loop from the most. I mean, those are the things that people have the most fear around, finance and romance. So to some extent, there's already a severe imbalance or-
Chris Roebuck:
Sorry, and for all of our listeners who are currently entering a new romance, this is the time to start being frightened.
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris Roebuck:
I'm joking. I'm joking, listeners.
Jaime Blaustein:
Well, here's the thing, with this stuff... And when I say that there's fear associated with it, that's informed by one's trust that, like I said earlier, if you do the right thing, are things going to work out? Because the unknown, whether it's going to work out with this guy or this girl, or whether this job is going to... you're going to get the promotion you want, that can be viewed on one hand as a really heavy thing, a sort of source of fear, or it can be viewed as, "Oh, I have no clue what's going to happen, this is exciting." So not knowing what's going to happen can be like, "Oh my God, I don't know what's going to happen" or it can be, "I don't know what's going to happen." You know what I mean? So it's purely one's mindset on the unknown, but yeah.
Chris Roebuck:
Which goes back to your point earlier about if you take the attitude, "I want this to be the outcome. I want the world to go the way I want it to", then you are also saying that in these environments, you are setting yourself up for stressing yourself.
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. And that doesn't mean you don't have goals and you don't plan, because I absolutely do that, it's just that I'm not... I've seen over a time that what's good might be bad and what's bad might be good. And I live forward and I understand backwards. And I don't necessarily know until later, things that happen that made me say, "Oh, this is the best thing in the world. Thank God I... whatever." I see later on, maybe that wasn't so good and vice versa. I can give you tangible examples, but I didn't get this job one time, it was the end of the world, and I see later on, thank God I did not get that job. That's what I thought I needed at the time, but oh, because I didn't get that job, it led me to being here and then I had this conversation with this person... So, work or lack thereof is a big component that can exacerbate the chemical imbalance or the trauma or the other internal factor going on.
Jaime Blaustein:
So people often come to us at their breaking point with the demands of work and we help them through that. And we do that again, clinically, medically. And then I run a separate career... It's called the Career Launch Program, where I address sort of how to navigate some of the external stuff, while the clinical deals with the internal. So, yeah, there's no shortage of folks that come in here and you ask them what's going on and the first words out of their mouth is something work related. The truth is there's more going on that the work related stuff might be a symptom, but it's a vicious cycle and it certainly exacerbates the mental.
Chris Roebuck:
So you existed in the sort of less than gentle world of investment banking and now you are a CEO in the slightly more gentle world of healthcare. So that's a bit of a cultural change for you. And for listeners, to be honest, I actually went through the same cultural change because I went straight from UBS the global bank, into the UK National Health Service. So that cultural change from utterly perfectionist and hard and autocratic into let's be effective, but let's be more gentle and empathetic with people, how have you managed that change?
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah, Chris, I don't know what you mean. My managing directors were super sweet to me all the time. They were-
Chris Roebuck:
I can imagine that. They always are.
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah. Yeah. It's been a very interesting transition. I haven't changed a whole lot. And let me clarify that. So I actually... I'm a happy customer of investment banking in a way. I'm very grateful for it. It brought a whole skillset and way of thinking about things that I didn't have before. I like the intensity of banking. I like the demanding nature of banking, but what I found is that it needs to be complimented by the empathy that I talked about earlier. I've noticed that one hand, banking didn't have that same humanistic touch and empathy, this industry, behavioral health, it lacks the structure and accountability of banking and that's something that I like, right? So I've tried to bring that to Sylvia Brafman.
Jaime Blaustein:
That said, there's a levity to it all. There's not this sort of undercurrent of fear that I think people felt on the floor of investment banking. We're compassionate and caring. At the same time, we're saving lives so you could actually argue there's more of a dire need to have a sense of urgency and to have a high quality work here. The difference is it's not artificially manufactured, it's actually people are going to die. So it's kind of a unique paradox in that sense.
Jaime Blaustein:
My partner, Ben actually loves that I'm not a behavioral health guy, because when we first got started and I was learning the industry and we'd have meetings with folks who... whatever they were trying to sell us some service or whatever, some sort of vendor, and I would just give them a weird look and be like, "Well, why would you do it that way?" And they're like, "Ah, well, this is just how we do it." And it just can happen in any industry, you sort of get tunnel vision and things that don't make sense become normalized. So my approach, I can look at things with the fresh eyes, and I try to take the best of the investment banking culture and merge it with the more humanistic approach in behavioral health.
Chris Roebuck:
Which is perfect because that links back in to the set of principles you adopted for life once you were into your recovery. So to some degree, you are now in a role that you obviously feel is perfect for you.
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. I mean, because accountability in showing up and caring, that's part of recovery and it's also hand in hand with doing a good job at work. So I definitely think that there's been times where I've been viewed as being a little too stringent and rigid. I have compassion and empathy and a lot of tolerance for people that are unable or they don't know, like ignorance, but I don't have much tolerance for laziness because to me that says you don't care. I don't really appreciate that. So it's odd. I think in banking it's like the bottom line is all that matters. You show up and deliver no matter what, but I ask the question, why? Why are you not able to deliver? And I treat it differently depending on what the reason is. Sometimes people need help.
Chris Roebuck:
Absolutely. Yes. The fundamental differences, even if you go back to the world of investment banking, it's perfectly possible to see that people may be producing the same figures, but one person is coasting and the other person is really giving their best. And from the perspective of any leader listening in the final analysis, even if the result is not what you expect, if somebody is giving their best, given the capability you have given them and the support you have given them, then you cannot ask for more.
Jaime Blaustein:
A hundred percent. You have to ask why, what is driving it? And then look at myself, what is my role in this? Have I not equipped you? And there's been times where I've said, "You know what? This is not me. I did not tee it up for you the way that I should have." So I've been known to be, on one hand, very demanding, but also that needs to be supplemented with being very appreciative for good work. And that was... going back to your earlier question in banking, I think there's a lack of appreciation. You have to communicate that people are valued and point out when they're doing a good job and you have to teach people why what they're doing might not be meeting expectations and give them a chance. But sometimes people just... they're not there and you have to make a judgment call that's unique to every situation.
Chris Roebuck:
And this fundamentally goes back to your point about showing you care. The simple figures are that leaders who show they care potentially get 25% more effort out of people than leaders who don't show they care. It's that simple in terms of how that acts on our brains as the person on the receiving end.
Chris Roebuck:
So if we look over the totality of the sort of things you do and the people, our listeners out there, what would you say to anyone who is out there as a listener, who is under so much pressure at work, they don't really know how to cope and perhaps it's starting to push them into some form of addiction? What would you say they should think about doing?
Jaime Blaustein:
I would say two things. First, if there's an addiction in play here, the first question is, do you want to stop? I mean, that's always been my first question when working with folks in recovery. Do you want to stop? If the answer is yes, second question is, can you stop? Do you have the ability to stop? And if the answer is no, I cannot stop, then sometimes it makes sense, like I said, to use that same analogy, take one step back to take five forward. You might need to go away. It's actually amazing to me how few people know about short term disability. I found that through my own experience that in most, at least large companies, you can call up and say, "Look, I have a problem. I need help. I need to get out of here for a little bit." And they can't tell the employer, at least in the US, they can't tell the employer why. They just say he's on short term disability. It's up to you to reveal what you want. They cannot fire you because of it. You'll continue to get paid at least a portion of your salary for that time. So there's often times where I tell people about this and they're like, "Oh, I had no idea that even existed."
Jaime Blaustein:
Before getting to that point, if you've tried to stop, and let's just say that you don't have a drug problem and it's purely mental health turmoil, there are outpatient options such as, like I said, we have an outpatient program, some are virtual, some are in person. What does that look like? Usually three nights a week, three hours in the evening, six to nine, you could even go a level down from that. So what I just described was intensive outpatient, then there's also just outpatient. Right? See a therapist, see a psychiatrist. So whether you need to take a pause is really dependent upon the extent to which you cannot stop, and/or if it's just mental health, pull it together with those resources outside of work.
Jaime Blaustein:
And then I think the important thing to remember too is, why am I doing all of this in the first place? All of this, meaning this job and... You're doing it because... And so if you can't change enough to make the job tolerable, then you might need to make a move. And it's important to think, okay, I did this because the presumption was I'm going to enjoy it or I'm going to make a good living and be able to do the things that I want to do at outside of work, but if you're miserable as a result, it kind of defeats your rationale for getting involved in the first place. And I think people don't take a step back and sort of look at this at a 30,000 foot view, so it's important to ask those higher level questions too.
Chris Roebuck:
I absolutely agree. My experience is that sort of people get locked into the psychology of the job, and they keep putting up with more and more and more, and they get more and more depressed about it. And whether it be a mentor, whether it be a family member, just talking through to other people who can give you a different perspective to say, actually... To put it in its most blunt, the cost benefit analysis of this job that was positive when I started is now negative. And I would just say to people, start looking for a new job. That simple.
Jaime Blaustein:
It's funny people often don't even consider it an option, right, because they're just so kind of stuck in their mindset and ways.
Chris Roebuck:
Yeah, absolutely. So how can people learn more about you and what you do at the health center?
Jaime Blaustein:
Yeah, so we're pretty easily found online, and I think we have a pretty good online presence. Our website is Sylvia Brafman, sylviabrafman.com. We're on Instagram @sylviabrafmancenter. We have a team ready to pick up the phone 24/7 at (954) 495-4020, that's on the website and also a US country code. And then I'm always available to talk to folks who reach out to me directly at my email, which is jaime.blaustein@sylviabrafman.com.
Chris Roebuck:
That's brilliant. And finally, one thing you think every leader should do more of to be a great leader for their people and get the best from them?
Jaime Blaustein:
I think it's what I said earlier, asking how are you doing, not in a work context, right? Almost separate the conversation. It does a couple things. One, it's information gathering to know what might be preventing them from showing up to work the way that they should be. Two, it makes people feel like they're cared about, and that really goes hand in hand with that striking a balance between demanding accountability while also showing empathy.
Chris Roebuck:
Jaime, that was absolutely brilliant. Thank you for all of those great insights to your journey and to leadership and what you've discovered in the new world that you are in, which I'm sure our listeners will be able to get one, great insights, but two, there's some really great ideas for action in there. So thank you very much, indeed.
Jaime Blaustein:
Great, thank you very much for having me, Chris.
Chris Roebuck:
My pleasure. I think there were some truly amazing insights in the journey that Jaime has been on with not only his overcoming of serious addiction, but the positives that he has carried forwards from that time that have helped him in what he's doing now, together with his insights from the very focused and driven world of investment banking that are now enabling him to help a critical part of the healthcare system be more effective and deliver better patient care.
Chris Roebuck:
I'm going to cover more specifics in my reflection in a week's time, but I think the key points I would suggest all of us listening to Jaime should pull out are the principle of holding to account with empathy and always taking regularly time out to step back and look at what you are doing and why. If all of us who are leaders, and in fact, all of us as people did those things, particularly a little bit more empathy and a little bit more reflection, perhaps working life and life in general would be better for us all. So in a week, I'll give you more in depth view of the key takeaways from Jaime's interview, my insights, and three ideas for action in my Reflections From the Top.
Chris Roebuck:
If you've used any of the insights you've got from previous guests and they've helped you, send me your success stories, I'd love to hear them. And also don't forget to sign up on the website so you don't miss any of the great future episodes when they come out.
Chris Roebuck:
Thanks for tuning in. Check out the show notes from today's episodes at perspectivesfromthetop.com, where you can not only enjoy additional resources from today's show, but all previous ones. If you haven't already, subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcast, so you don't miss any. And if you really enjoyed the show, please give us a five star rating and review. Have a question or comment? Let's discuss it, message me on LinkedIn. Perspectives from the Top is produced in collaboration with Detroit Podcast Studios. So have a successful week, use today's new learnings and actions, and remember, it's onwards and upwards. See next time on Perspectives from the Top.