Perspectives from the Top

How to Play Offense in Business and Life (ft. Paul Epstein)

Episode Summary

Purpose isn’t just something that inspires us when the sun is out and the sky is blue. When we face major trials, whether personal or on a global scale (like a certain worldwide pandemic), our purpose becomes more important than ever. Guest Paul Epstein shows us how to lead with purpose and play offense in life and business.

Episode Notes

How to Play Offense in Business and Life (ft. Paul Epstein)

Stop reacting, start acting with purpose, and see your life transform.

OPENING QUOTE:

“I realized I made a mistake because I now found out that I was chasing the wrong things. I was only studying the top 1% of what they did and what has actually been a greater teacher to me in life is to study what not to do.”

—Paul Epstein

GUEST BIO:

Paul Epstein is a respected fixer for NBA teams, NFL franchises, and league executive offices. Paul Epstein led sales for Super Bowls, the San Francisco 49ers, for three NBA clubs, and much, much more. Then Paul discovered his personal purpose, swapping the executive boardroom to help others get success in their respective ‘games’ by playing offense in everything they do.

Learn more about Paul Epstein:

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[3:51] Defense vs. Offense

How do you react to adversity?

When we face challenges, do they cause us to retreat into a safe and comfortable zone? Or do we take an offensive mindset, finding our purpose through adversity and getting back on the track to keep running? Soon, you’ll find yourself acting instead of being acted upon.

[9:20] Five Challenges, Five Achievements

A powerful exercise to focus your response to challenges

Paul recommends an exercise that involves writing down five things that have happened or are happening now that you consider adversities. Next, write down five past experiences that you consider achievements, successes, or wins. Finally, compare how you achieved those wins to your list of challenges. How can you apply the principles of the former to take on the latter?

[19:18] Don’t Study the End, Study the Beginning

Learn the right lessons from successes and failures

When we study success stories, we tend to study the successful parts. But we can learn much more from the ‘muddy waters,’ the struggles and trials behind the scenes that eventually led to those successes. These are where the truly transformative insights lie.

[28:22] Lead with Purpose, Watch Your Teams Transform

Are you a leader or manager? Start here.

Is your team bringing their whole self to work? If they don’t believe in you as a leader or your culture, then they’re only going to show up with a percentage of their potential. The greater their engagement, belief, and buy-in to the culture you create, the more they’ll pour themselves into the vision and find their peak performance— and fulfilment.

[37:41] What Does a Title Amount To? Not Much.

What we remember most about great leaders isn’t their job description

Think of the greatest leader you’ve ever had, in any walk of life. Think of their behaviors, their actions, how they made decisions. Think of all the things they achieved that you respect most. Now ask yourself— Do you need a title to accomplish any of those things? If you can find a purpose that’s greater than a title or current role, you’ll begin to tap into your greatest potential.

RESOURCES:

FOLLOW:

We'd love to hear your thoughts on today’s episode. Feel free to DM Chris on social or shoot him an email at chris@chrisroebuck.net.

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Learn more about Paul Epstein:

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Episode Transcription

Paul Epstein:

I realized I made a mistake because I now found out that I was chasing the wrong things. I was only studying the top 1% of what they did and what has actually been a greater teacher to me in life is to study what not to do.

Chris Roebuck:

Welcome to perspectives from the top. I'm Chris Roebuck, global keynote speaker with unique leadership experience from military, business, and government. Bestselling author and your guide to greater success. Together, we'll discover powerful insights from the world's leading thinkers, doers, and trailblazers. The must know trends, thought provoking revelations, and practical actions you can use immediately. This is your exclusive and personal shot of insight and inspiration to help you get to the top.

Chris Roebuck:

Hi, and welcome to perspectives from the top. To all of our listening community around the world, today we have a great start with a respected fixer for NBA teams, NFL franchises, and league executive offices. Paul Epstein led sales for Superbowls for San Francisco 49ers, for three NBA clubs, and much, much more. Then Paul discovered his personal purpose, swapping the executive boardroom to help others get success in their games by playing offense and how you can do that to be more successful yourself is what Paul will be sharing with us all today.

Chris Roebuck:

Hey Paul, it's great to have you on the show. Now, you've gone through so many sort of personal transformations in what is an amazingly successful career, and I'm assuming that you've had those best days and those worst days, but you've still got to where you are now. I suppose everybody listening will have experienced those lows. How did you build the energy and actually a practical plan to get through those? And was that where the inspiration came from for your book, the Power of Playing Offense?

Paul Epstein:

Yeah, it's a great point, Chris. And I'll give a bit of the backstory. And to answer your final piece, a million percent the inspiration for what became years later, the Power of Playing Offense to give the audience a background. So there's five pillars in terms of how we play offense. And by playing offense, you don't need you to be a sports fan for this to resonate. It is essentially a mindset that you can attack each day with and the core pillar and the first element is purpose. And that for me has been such a critical part as I think back to not only the highs of life, because that's way too easy to talk about. I'd rather actually drill in on the lows because I think there's a misconception in the world about the topic of purpose. I believe and I will say I was guilty of this prior to finding my why, apply my core values into how I showed up every single day, which will certainly get into that.

Paul Epstein:

But I thought purpose was solely a north star. I thought purpose was something that it only served you in blue skies. So if I could take a macro global view, I thought purpose was a 2019 concept, not a 2020 concept, obviously with a global pandemic hitting all of us. Adversity, that feeds into many of the lows. Like what you brought up. And here is what I now know to be true that I did know years ago, relative to purpose. Purpose is the fuel of courage and resilience. And here's what I mean by that.

Paul Epstein:

When adversity hits, we all have a choice on how we respond. If you take the pandemic as an example, do we go back into a safe and comfortable zone of life? Do we retreat? Do we play defense or do we take in offensive mindset? Meaning, maybe there is a pivot as many people we're talking about, but it's pivot with purpose. In other words, if life was like a treadmill metaphorically, purpose keeps you on the treadmill, especially on the days you want to get off because my belief is that it all comes back to what I just said. It is belief in the game that we're playing. Belief in the game of life, belief in the game of business. And when I care more deeply about the game that I'm playing, when adversity hits, it's not a question of whether I persevere, it's how I will persevere, but I do believe that the fuel of everything I just talked about is purpose.

Chris Roebuck:

That's really interesting. You mentioned the sort of concept of the belief side of it. And I think that it is from my experience that fundamental belief in what you are doing and where you are going that powers it. And what that links to one of the things that you speak about, which is the growth mindset. And the growth mindset I think is absolutely critical because that's where the belief comes in. What's your view of the growth mindset in terms of creating that belief? Because if you don't have a growth mindset, it's difficult to look forwards surely.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah, no. The interesting coincidence here is I brought up core values a few moments ago. Out of my five core values, Chris, two of the five, one is growth, and one is belief. So the apple does not fall far from the tree, my friend, but really here, look, I'll give all the credit for the origin of the growth mindset to Carol Dweck and her phenomenal book Mindset. Anybody listening and if you haven't picked it up, please do so right now.

Paul Epstein:

Now giving Carol the credit, I look at growth mindset with a slight twist to her concept. My perspective is if life is binary and half of us have a fixed mindset, half have a growth mindset, what's the difference? I think that fixed mindset is when we over focus on hurdles, obstacles, and why we cannot do something versus a growth mindset is possibilities, opportunities, and why we can do something. And that's really where the rubber meets the road. And to your point of a growth mindset, it's all a reframe. When somebody says I cannot do something, that is a self-limiting belief that they're inflicting upon themselves. That is a fixed mindset versus with a growth mindset, it requires belief.

Paul Epstein:

I cannot focus on possibilities, opportunities, and why I can do something if I don't believe that that a path that I want to pursue with clarity, with conviction. And that to me is really the secret sauce, Chris. So yes, growth mindset. These are all interchangeable in the sense of there is a web and an ecosystem of how we create more positive impact in the world. You can't do that if you don't believe deeply. You can't do that with out a growth mindset. You can't do that without greater purpose. And I'll also leave you with this thought. I think you can do it for a day, a week, or a month, maybe even a year, but you cannot sustain the impact over the course of a lifetime if you don't have these core fundamentals.

Chris Roebuck:

So for our listeners then, you were talking about, say 50% of the population effectively having a fixed mindset and 50% having a growth mindset and people quote different figures. What are some simple, practical things that people can do to one, I suppose, check whether they tend to be more fixed or more growth, but certainly the critical steps of moving, not from fixed to growth or perhaps moving to a more growth mindset depending where they are on the spectrum. Any little practical tips you could suggest?

Paul Epstein:

Absolutely. So I'm a massive fan of getting out of your mind, meaning I believe that our mind limits us in many ways, and this goes back to... I'm not an anthropologist, but I will just say back to the cave people days where it was very much a matter of survival. Our mind has ever since focused, in my opinion, over focused, the way we're wired naturally is stability, security, comfort. And so if that is what our mind is going to draw us toward, we're never going to take risk. We're never going to play offense the way that I have that lens on it. And so I think that we need take what limits us inside of our head and either speak it out loud or put it on paper. So a practical and tactical thing for folks to do is to write down five things that have happened in let's say the last 12 months where you consider it to be an adversity.

Paul Epstein:

Also write five things in the last 12 months that you are proud of some sort of accomplishment or achievement that you have experienced. And then you drill in. And there's two strategies here. With the adversities, I would say, think of how that made you feel. Was there fear, risk, uncertain, anxiety? Then go back even further in life and say, have I ever felt those things before? And of course the answer is yes, then you play that pattern back. And you say, even if it was five years ago, how did I overcome it back then? How did I overcome my fear? How did I get rid of that anxiety? What actions, what behaviors, what mindset shift did I take?

Paul Epstein:

And essentially you capture your successful processes and frameworks and models of the past to apply it to the adversity of the present. And now you're better armed for the future. The way I boil it down in my book is by one line. You've been here before. So when you think that you haven't, or you're not capable of overcoming an adversity, absolutely you are, but in the moment, your mind convinces you that you can't, fixed mindset. When you reframe it and you look back to when you have conquered something in your past and you go to the detailed, actionable behaviors and ways you made decisions in those moments, that is stuff we can learn from and all-

Paul Epstein:

That is stuff we can learn from. And also, I would say, we can learn from our neighbors, our friends, our family, our coworkers, our colleagues, our leaders, the same thing. If we ever feel stuck, it takes a village sometimes to get out of the fixed mindset. Feel free to connect with somebody. Let them know that you're feeling limited in a certain area. And it's amazing what a conversation can do, because again, it takes it from your mind and it makes it real in terms of a partnership and progress.

Chris Roebuck:

That's really interesting. You take us back to the caveman, and what's going on in terms of the survival. And the interesting element around the neuroscience of it, the drive that the brain subconscious has to survive and then thrive, which you would have thought would move you towards a growth mindset, wanting to move forward. But then on the flip side of the subconscious, it's looking for risk, and it is five to seven times more sensitive to a risk than it is to something that might be positive.

Chris Roebuck:

And I think that's fascinating in that, to some degree, would you say that there is an element of fear related to risk that people might have that keeps them in a fixed mindset because they're frightened to go growth? And overcoming that fear, is that easy or difficult, or can they do it with practice?

Paul Epstein:

Great question. And I'm going to go in reverse order.

Chris Roebuck:

[inaudible 00:12:44]. Sure. Do go for it.

Paul Epstein:

The aspect of, is overcoming fear easy or difficult? I will say, it can become easy with practice. At the beginning, it will be very difficult because you're breaking molds and habits and rituals and routines, if you do in fact, have a fixed mindset. And look, I'm not casting judgment here. I have had a fixed mindset for chapters of my life a million percent, but once you enter the space of growth, it's almost impossible to go back. And so here's the practical way of thinking about it, is if we are wired to be risk-averse, as you say, which I fully agree with that notion, I think the reason is because we have this perception that if we fail, then we lose the game, we maybe believe less in ourself, we feel less value, less self-worth, all of these things. It's not a great feeling to lose a game, nevertheless, take a risk. And you feel like that is going to give you a classifier or identifier that's negative.

Paul Epstein:

We don't want to. It's the way that we're wired. You don't want to touch the burning stove, because if you know that you're going to feel pain, you don't do it again. When you fail with a fixed mindset, if you don't do anything about it to progress and innovate and evolve, it's just another analogy of the burning stove, you stopped touching it after a while. And so my theory is, and we can learn from many organizations about this... Look, right now, since we've been recording this, I guarantee you that half of the folks listening into this have had a few boxes arrive on their doorstep by a little company named Amazon. Let's use Amazon as an example. And this goes back to the Bezos philosophy that failure is nothing more than experimentation. With the right mindset, you expect to fail, but then you study it, you learn from it, you grow from it.

Paul Epstein:

And so in life, rather than... How about this? For everybody listening in, effective immediately, instead of thinking that it's a binary, success or failure, scratch the word failure out of the vocabulary and put learning. "I either succeed or I learn. I succeed or I learn." And when you reframe it like that, you're not afraid to take a risk, or a chance, or what the rest of the world calls fail. I'm just trying to level up. And this just happens to be a vehicle for me to do that.

Chris Roebuck:

That's really interesting because you're... That example. Succeed or learn is actually what we do through life. Succeed or learn is what we've done through our childhoods. And it's only when we get into the workplace, it's only when our careers are there that we suddenly think, "No, no, no, no, I can't risk not succeeding," when in fact, actually, you're right. And from the sports world, it is that, if you look at some of the best tennis players in the world, they will be prepared to lose a game because they know that gives them understanding and energy to win the match.

Paul Epstein:

Hmm. Yeah, no, I think tennis, the way it's modeled, is a phenomenal analogy, how there's games, and then sets, and then matches. You could replace that with a sprint versus a marathon. And really, I just think this, just because you lose a sprint, it doesn't mean it's permanent or a macro indicator that you're going to lose a marathon, and the more you can chunk things out and be intentional about, "Is this the one I need to go all in for, or is this one of those that I'm just using it as a learning opportunity? It's not about the win or the loss, it's more just me just trying to observe," kind of like the boxing analogy, the fighting analogy. I think that's another great one.

Paul Epstein:

Sometimes fights start very slow. They're very strategic. We're feeling each other out is the vocabulary that the announcer would use. And then when they sense the angle, when they sense the weakness in the opponent, that is when they can move forward, play offense, and attack, if you will. And I think that can be a strategy for life. Playing offense is not an all gas, no brakes a million percent of the time, it is when you see the opportunity, seize it, capitalize it. That's when you hit the gas. And the harder you hit the gas relative to the competition, that creates more opportunities for your future.

Chris Roebuck:

And all of us exist in a community at work or a social community wherever. One of the things where perhaps there is an opportunity for people to learn, and give us your insight on this, is that it's not only about my learning through my own experience, it's also understanding the experiences of others, either by observation, or if I'm lucky, having a mentor or coach. And how does that additional input to your learning experience help you? And why should people seek out that?

Paul Epstein:

Well, you bring up a great point, which is essentially the macro topic, is how and why should we learn from others? Whether it be a leader in business, whether that be a friend, a family member, whomever, I want to make this as universally applicable as possible. And I think I'll say this, just to be very vulnerable and candid, I used to study the best exclusively. And by the best, I looked at who had the most trophies in life, and especially in business, because that was the field that I drew my entire career in, in the sports industry.

Paul Epstein:

And I realized I made a mistake, because I now found out that I was chasing the wrong things. I was only studying the top 1% of what they did. And what has actually been a greater teacher to me in life is to study what not to do, or to just have very open conversations about, where did people miss? Where is the hard left turn in their journey? Study the comeback. And when they were down on the mat, what got them up off the mat, some of those early, more challenging chapters of what we now see as a big transformation, such as the one that I went through?

Paul Epstein:

Don't study the end of the story, study the beginning. Study the muddy waters. And that's really where I want to try to support all listeners out there, is find resources in life, whether they be books, podcasts, or human conversation, and don't just study the wins, because in my opinion, the losses can be even greater teachers. That would be one piece of practical perspective.

Paul Epstein:

And the other wrinkle is this, ask yourself, what are you after? I think... And I'll speak to this, and I know you have a global audience. I myself, I'm here in the United States, so I'll make a United States-based comment, that I believe we are over-fixated on this concept of success. By success, it's largely serving ourselves. We're chasing these trophies, and it's about achievement and accomplishment. And if significance is serving others versus success is serving self, it's fascinating how I find people with significance, greater joy, greater happiness, greater fulfillment, and they're very intentional about those outcomes.

Paul Epstein:

Now, here's the caveat I want to leave you with, and then I'll give it back to you, Chris, is I know many people in life that are successful, and yet they don't feel significance, but I don't know a single person that feels significance and is not successful. Rather than chase success, maybe it's significance that we should be after. And that is how I would conclude your question in the sense of, what should we be learning from others?

Paul Epstein:

First, ask yourself, what do you want to learn from others? Do you just want to chase trophies? Fine, go study the wins, study the trophies. Good for you. That's how I used to think. Now, I think, who's the happiest person in the room? Who is the most energized person in the room? Who has the greatest joy? Who has the greatest fulfillment? I'm going to study that at its peak moments and its valley moments. And that has been just the most abundant and fulfilling source of knowledge I could ever gain.

Chris Roebuck:

If you look over your experience, though, and I look over mine, one of the things I've noticed is that it's the people who do the giving back, it's the people who show they care, it's the people who work on the we, not me principle, rather than me, not we, which the success addicts go for to some degree, but in the end, it's those first group of people that are doing the giving back and sharing who actually end up being more successful because people give back to them.

Paul Epstein:

And that's it.

Chris Roebuck:

... because people give back to them.

Paul Epstein:

And that's it. I believe that there's two mountains in life, and in the first, we are largely on the "me" bucket. You think about childhood, you think about the perception of where you go to school, the first company you work for, your personal brand. There's a lot of "me" in that. I personally, and I'll just say this, I wasn't taught a lot about the "we" early in my career. It wasn't until I entered the formal position of leadership... I say position, because I define it very differently than the rest of the world relative to leadership. But until I entered the positional ranks of leadership, that's when I started to realize that serving myself is not the path to success or significance, frankly.

Paul Epstein:

And I learned that because I would say the first six months or so that I had a reporting team... Now I call it a span of care. When I first had reports, oh man, I was a pretty bad manager. I was a manager that I would not have followed at all. I would not have followed myself, reflecting back on it. But then the transformation, the inspiration, the purpose, the impact, driving toward bigger things like thinking about legacy at an earlier age in our careers, that's when the magic happened. And look, I had to go through some pain points and some painful chapters and memories and events, but I'm so grateful that I did, because I didn't go to school to learn the "we." I had to go through the hard knocks of life to learn the "we," and it's kind of an addiction. Once you realize that that's the secret sauce to success and significance, you never go back to the "me." Some people hit the "we" chapter earlier than others, but I agree with you, that is the destination we need to be after.

Chris Roebuck:

People often sort of look at the comments that you made around that and say, "Oh, well this is nice sort of huggy stuff. It's all very moral. It's all very emotionally right," and all the rest of it. But all the evidence that you and I know about this is that when you start looking at that in terms of teams and organizations, that attitude imbibing the team, imbibing the organization produces more performance, more power, more money. So for those purely bottom-line-focused people who are listening, this stuff makes money. So don't think we're sort of all sitting around cross-legged around the campfire chanting. This is bottom-line stuff, which you can tell from your examples of how this works that it does deliver hard results. Yes?

Paul Epstein:

Yes, and it's interesting you say that. When I speak, coach, train, consult, any hat that I wear, I speak to the CFOs in the room, because it's too easy for me to speak to the chief people officers. It's easy to talk about purpose in a conceptual way. I actually lead with the numbers, not because I'm trying to over convince somebody. I'm just trying to say that... Look, I am a business guy, and I realize that the path to greater results are through these things that the naysayers call "soft skills." I call them foundational imperative skills. These are non-negotiables. Look, I'll rattle off a handful of things just from memory. All of this is very abundantly out there. If you Google the ROI of purpose, the ROI of culture, the ROI of employee engagement, everything is there. I'll speak to purpose for a couple seconds.

Paul Epstein:

Purpose, 50% greater if you're a purpose-driven professional. 50% greater likelihood to enter leadership, 30% greater performance, 64% greater fulfillment. If I take it up to an organizational level, the 10 most purpose-driven companies outperformed the general stock market by over 1,000%. Oh, and then we go to the culture space, and you think about the greatest places to work, which is one of the most recognizable trophy cabinets for the right reasons in the world. Isn't it fascinating that they outperformed the S&P 500 by four to one or five to one on an annual basis? And this is decades, rolling average of decades, that this has been the case.

Paul Epstein:

So for all the CFOs out there and for anybody that is tuning in, there is bottom-line impact. The one quick hit I'll share with you, Chris, is when I was at the San Francisco 49ers, we had a pre-purpose chapter and a post-purpose chapter. The difference in results after implementing our purpose into our recruiting, our onboarding, our training, our development, our engagement, our hiring practices, our evaluation, our recruiting, our retention, all of these different elements, the full talent wheel, sales revenues year-to-year with the same product on the field went up 20%. And we're talking budgets of hundreds of millions of dollars. I am a believer that there is a linkage from purpose and culture and leadership to bottom-line finances. That's it.

Chris Roebuck:

Absolutely. And going back to our "we not me" leader who gives back, the evidence is without a doubt, but those leaders can get up to 30% more performance from 60% of people. Which is what CEOs and CFOs love, because that can put up to 10% on bottom line for free. So for all of our listeners out there, the skeptics, just get onto Google and check out all the research, because this is not supposition, this is facts. And if we-

Paul Epstein:

Sorry, Chris, can I just-

Chris Roebuck:

Go on, sorry. Dive in.

Paul Epstein:

... interject one quick thing? Sorry, just one quick thing, because I think this is an important point, because we've been rattling things off-

Chris Roebuck:

Sure.

Paul Epstein:

... maybe too quick. And I would say this for everybody listening in. The common sense way of thinking about this is: Is your team bringing their whole self to work? If they don't believe in you as a leader or your culture or the organization, then they are only going to show up at 30%, 40%, 50%, 60% of their potential, of their capacity. So the greater their engagement and belief and buy-in to leadership and culture and organization, they pour their whole self into work, and then you get greater productivity, which leads to greater performance. So I just wanted to call that out in case it sounded too conceptual, and we're just rattling off numbers. The very simplistic way of thinking about it is: Are your people pouring their whole self into work? And if they don't believe in the place, they ain't going to do it?

Chris Roebuck:

It goes back to the comment that you made earlier. I believe there those three simple steps, those critical foundational skills of being able to get stuff done, people giving their best, and then focusing that best onto what delivers success. Now, you're writing a new book On Purpose. And listeners, that's the title of the book, not just why Paul's writing it. So give us an insight into why you decided to add this new book.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. So on the heels of The Power of Playing Offense, some of this is... It's a very organic process. And as I rolled out The Power of Playing Offense and I was humbled by the fact that within 24 hours it became a best seller, and as I started to have more impact and doors opened because of this recognition, I started to really dive in with intimate groups that were utilizing The Playing Offense playbook. And I'm asking them, "What's resonating the most?" I'm asking them what have they implemented into their daily practice, whether in business or in their personal lives. I'm asking where maybe there were some misses, and what they would like to hear more about, maybe where I was unclear and where they'd like to double down on. So a lot of this was very much sourced from readers and fans and viewers of all the platforms that I'm on.

Paul Epstein:

And the one piece that kept coming back, Chris, is purpose is the foundation for the rest of the playbook. So yes, pillars two through five are uber important in The Power of Playing Offense, but without that first pillar, pillars two through five, it's like you're building your business model on quicksand. Because again, that intrinsic belief just isn't there. So my second book, which I'm in the early stages of outlining, and I'll be putting pen to paper here in the coming months, the working title is On Purpose. And the big question is: Are you living your life on purpose, or is life just happening to you? And that, to me... If we're being honest with ourselves, the majority of the world, life is just happening to them. And I know this because when I serve as a purpose coach or a purpose trainer, I know there's two groups of people undeniably.

Paul Epstein:

And after I walk out of the room, no matter how many action items I roll out, there's a group that takes off to thrive, to live and lead with purpose, and then there's a group that if I was to parachute into their world 90 days later, it's a lot of the same stuff. Just stuck in old habits, old routines, certainly not thriving. And I've studied both groups, and I'm starting to research even deeper about what are the common traits, characteristics, and attributes of group A and group B. And I'm noticing that prior to quote "finding your why," prior to unearthing your core values, which is certainly, to me, that big transformational portal that we all need to be going through, there are some things that you need to be doing ahead of time, such as having greater perspective, such as having greater self-awareness, doubling down on your emotional intelligence, living in a mind space of curiosity.

Paul Epstein:

Those would just be some examples of things that I now have studied a subset great enough to know that there are characteristics of the people that live on purpose. Life does not just happen to them. They are very intentional in the way that they enter each day, and that's really the book I'm trying to create. It is the intersection of: Who are you, what do you stand for, and how do you want to show up?

Paul Epstein:

Who are you, what do you stand for, and how do you want to show up? And when you can kind of link that heart-head-hands model as I'm calling it, that is the mission behind the second book on purpose.

Chris Roebuck:

It's interesting. It sounds like the core idea is that there's a group of people who are just focusing on getting the job done every day, they're on the hamster treadmill. And there's another group of people who've worked out how to make that hamster treadmill really slick. So it gives them time to take a step back, to reflect, to look at the big picture, and work out where they're going. Is that what you sort of have discovered in your discussions?

Paul Epstein:

A million percent. And I would challenge everybody listening in to apply what you just said to how have we shown up during the greater chapter of the pandemic, because I have seen folks that either retreated or stayed in place, and then I've seen others that while they certainly face the same challenges as the rest of us, they thrived in many ways. And I think the reason they thrived is based on what you just said. They called a timeout. The pandemic gave us all an opportunity, whether we chose to step into the opportunity is a choice, but we had an opportunity to pause, to reflect, to ask ourselves who we are, what matters to us, what do we want to stand for, why do we do what we do. And if we would need to do a recraft of our business, of our relationships, or of our life, what a phenomenal opportunity this pause in this timeout created for us.

Paul Epstein:

So I think it's very fair what you just said. I think coming on the heels of the pandemic, I don't think that the group A and group B, I can heavily relate it to how folks emerged from the pandemic, even though we're still in it. I think if you grew during the pandemic, massive transformations have already happened in your life, even though some would argue we're still in the eye of the storm. And that's what transformation is. External circumstances don't dictate what happens to you, you start by leading yourself and operating on your terms. And that really is the ethos of what we're trying to bring to the table.

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah. I honestly think there's another really important point around those pandemic experiences that leaders and organizations need to understand, because of the differences in experiences that people have had over that pandemic. Some of those people who come back into the office will not be the same people who left. And you need to support and help that person reestablish who they are. I'm sure you must've seen that through talking to people.

Paul Epstein:

Yeah. Well, right now I don't care when you're listening to this, it could even be a year from now, but the digital footprint is here. Google The Great Resignation. That's what's taking over the world right now, as companies are opening back up, they're attempting to welcome their workforce back in. And there's a significant percentage that are saying thanks, but no thanks. Because I've rethought my life. I've rethought you as my leader. I've rethought this culture, this industry, fill in the blank, and this isn't for me.

Chris Roebuck:

I've rethought my purpose.

Paul Epstein:

That's it. Yeah. And so I couldn't be in a sweeter spot right now where everybody in the world, if you didn't care about purpose in 2019, stuff has happened to you at a business and personal level in the last two years where now everybody is aware of purpose, it's whether they step into it.

Chris Roebuck:

Great. It's a great point. And finally, one piece of advice you would give, one action, a new young developing leader should do to help them get a grip of purpose and where they want to go. And perhaps another point for maybe that CEO, who's thinking, hm, this purpose staff, do I really need it? Go for it.

Paul Epstein:

Absolutely. And I'll actually speak to both groups with the same action item and the same exercise. I want everybody listening in whether you're in the C-suite or you're on the front lines. Think of the greatest leader that you've ever had. In any walk of life. Maybe it's business, could be a parent, could be a coach, could be a mentor. Think of that person right now. And think about how they showed up every day. Their actions, their behaviors, the way they made decisions. And as you rattle off in your mind, these words that immediately come to mind, I'm just throwing out some general examples. They cared. They were compassionate. They listened. They had empathy. They were curious. They were passionate. They were purposeful. They challenged me and I could keep going on. Now think to yourself, do I need a title to do any of those things?

Paul Epstein:

Care, compassion, purpose, all of these elements. And the answer is no. So here's the big mic drop piece that I want to really drill in on this. The world defines leadership as rank, role, title, or authority. But that's not why you thought of that person that you just said was the greatest leader that you've ever had. So in other words, before we lead others, we must first lead ourselves. And that whole list of traits, and attributes, and actions, and behaviors that you just thought of for the greatest leader in your life, that's your job description. That is the job description of anybody that wants to lead themselves. CEOs, you need to lead yourself or nobody will follow you. I promise you. Frontlines, you need to lead yourself or you cannot grow your career. It doesn't matter where you are in an org chart, leadership of self does not require a title and it is universally applicable. And that is the action item that I like to leave everybody with today.

Chris Roebuck:

That is brilliant, Paul. And as you said from your figures earlier, it will make you as an individual leader more successful. And for you as a CEO, it will make your organization make more money. What more could you ask? Thank you so much. That was amazing. Listeners, there are some really great, simple, practical points you can go and do now from Paul's exercises. So whilst it's in your mind, either stick it down on your notepad, on your phone, or write it down on a piece of paper and make sure you do it in the next 24 to 48 hours max, or you'll forget it. Thanks for listening. And thank you, Paul, for an amazing, amazing insight in how we can all improve our playing of offense.

Paul Epstein:

Yep. Thank you Chris for having me on.

Chris Roebuck:

There were some really amazing points in there that every single one of you can pick up at least one of those points and go and do something with it tomorrow to help you become better. The growth mindset, developing your belief, making sure that you as an individual have a purpose, that your organization has a purpose if you're a senior leader, and really just the principle of playing offense and stepping into it. So it's been a really interesting set of ideas that Paul has given us all that we can really go and do something about.

Chris Roebuck:

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