Chris revisits the key points made by Marshall Goldsmith, adds his own insights and gives listeners some suggestions for practical actions they can take immediately to help them get where they want to go.
Welcome to every one of our Perspectives from the Top community of listeners around the world to “Reflections on the Top”. And through your support and sharing with friends it is around the world as Perspectives from the Top now has listeners in 46 countries. “Reflections” is to help you get the best from the series by me reviewing the key insights from our latest guest.
That was the great MARSHALL GOLDSMITH – Marshall first degree was in Mathematical Economics but then he moved into studying people, spurred by is Buddhist philosophy, via his PhD and then asProfessor of Management Practice at Dartmouth Tuck, he then moved into the world of executive education, as an entrepreneur building a business. Now Marshall has so many accolades I don’t have time to cover them, for business, leadership and executive coaching amongst them, top ranked business thinkers for 10 years, No 1 global executive coach, Harvard Institute of Coaching Life Time award plus he’s the author of author of numerous bestselling books, each helping people get the best out of themselves, their work and their lives. His new book “The Earned Life” helping really focus in on the latter, based on his Buddhist philosophy, showing readers to be better fulfilled and have fewer regrets.
Having enjoyed working with Marshall developing the most senior leaders at UBS the global bank when I was global head of leadership there I knew that Marshall was going to come up with some thought provoking, challenging and powerful insights in our interview. And I wasn't wrong. But one of the reasons for that is way back in Marshall's career that he has spoken to me about is that after his mathematical economics degree he started developing his view of life around Buddhist philosophy and his desire to focus more on people. That philosophy has shaped his life and how he has positively interacted with others, building an Earned Life.
For those listeners not familiar with Buddhist philosophy let me just give a very quick overview, and apologies for any Buddhists or religious scholars listening, this might be an over simplification for the sake of brevity but I hope it brings out those key elements that I think we see in what Marshall says.
First that nothing is permanent, the world is in a state of constant change and we as individuals are also constantly changing. Given that constant change not only do we need to look around us at others and the world we also need to take time to look inside to reflect on what we are doing and why. Buddhism sets out some key principles around doing good, similar to the Christian tradition of “do unto to others”, and reflected by other religions. In addition it emphasises is the importance of developing our minds to enable us to reflect upon what is happening around us and within ourselves grow enlightenment.
Marshall was fortunate to meet the great Paul Hersey the leadership and executive development guru who encouraged him to move from academia into the executive development world. Marshall has been so successfully since then that, as I have said before, he has so many accolades as the best in the world they're too numerous to mention.
But having worked with him I think Marshalls success is grounded in the fact that he keeps it simple, keeps it practical, and above all keeps it focused on the people or person he is trying to help. With his classes, coaching and writing he has helped literally millions of people develop positively in some way or other.
But the practicality of what Marshall does is reflected in his measure of success as an executive coach, not measured by himself, not even measured by the person he is coaching but by the people who work for the person he is coaching, so has there been a visible improvement in that persons performance. It was interesting the advice that Marshall got from Alan Mulally ex chief executive of Ford the importance of making coaching more about the other person not yourself. If you think about it that's quite fundamental, and often forgotten. The coach of course being the all knowing experienced person who cascades his infinite wisdom on the other person, that’s in reality the way to fail.
However, encouragingly we are now in a world where it is acceptable for senior leaders to say “I could do with some help” and as a few years ago this was perceived as a weakness. At least now most leaders accept the basic reality that we don't know everything, can't do everything, and sometimes just might need help!
But linking to the question around whether leadership has moved on both Marshall and I accept that leadership has improved over the years but there is a fundamental problem. The changes in society shape peoples expectations of what their leaders should be doing for them at work have changed even more. So as we discussed whilst leadership has improved the bar has to meet has gone up even more. As Marshall mentioned in relation to his research leadership in general is better but the feedback that leaders get is proportionately worse.
COVID without doubt has had an impact on this where experiences of people over the pandemic mean that everyone is now significantly more focused on what is important in their lives, be that work life or personal life. Every single one of you listening will, as a result of COVID, have changed your view of life in some way.
The problem for organisations is that people aren't suddenly going to turn around and expect less from leaders. So we now seem to be in a situation where in terms of the average view of quality of leadership delivered versus the quality expected we could actually be in a worse position than we were ten years ago. From my perspective in getting the best from people to deliver organisational success this creates an urgent imperative for organisations to do something. And for anyone who is a leader listing to think about how they can be better, and even the idea of asking their people the same question. I know that sounds a risk, but I’ve never met a leader who has regretted doing it and who hasn’t build their credibility with the team by having the courage to ask.
But being a better leader, or developing better leaders however is not a quick fix. I would suggest that all listeners have a look at Marshalls article “leadership is a contact sport”, there’s a link in the notes. In this Marshall says quite clearly, and is totally confirmed by all my experience over 35 years in the leadership world, that it takes regular repeated and action to improve individuals leadership. I one off event might be an inspiring start but it's not going have significant impact on its own. Organisations need to understand that the development of leadership is essentially the creation of new habits within the leadership group.
Marshalls creation of leadership chats over Covid was really interesting when he brought together some of the most senior leaders in organisations from around the world to let them talk. The fact that just a one hour chat with other people, of which half was about work and half about home, achieved so much for those involved. That they were able to confide in each other, able to gain insight from people with different perspectives and the beautiful comment from one of them that it gave them one hour a week when they were able to act like a human being more than a CEO. From my perspective what this confirms more than anything else is the importance of giving people space to be able to open up, talk freely, share perspectives, of the wider world and not just work.
I think this applies to all of us not just to CEOs so to everybody listening it's about thinking if you can find a venue where you can do these things be it in your organisation, at some form of professional group, or with a social group of peers from other organisations. It allows you to reflect on where you are on your journey, which links back to Marshalls view of the importance of this inward reflection within his Buddhist philosophy. But it also reflects my point about learning, that seeking out people who have different perspectives to yourself either within a for in general discussion or within a coaching environment that you will learn more from people who have different perspectives to you.
I asked Marshall if he felt that there were consistent elements within leadership that are maybe timeless and he commented about in his view the three levels on which people look at what they're doing, the 99% of people out there who are just focused on simple actions to get done and get through the day, those in leadership roles who focus on ambition achieving those goals of getting to the next level, but sometimes become lost in that ambition, and those who have aspiration in terms of a greater purpose, in some ways above both ambition and action, as Marshall put it that they, to a degree, become lost in their own heads in conceptual thinking.
From the leadership perspective its the lost in ambition group of leaders that I have seen a lot of, and have seen towards the end of careers a level of regret. To Marshalls comment “oh it will all be OK when I have achieved my next objective”, the problem is that as soon as you have then another one appears, as I put it placing you on the hamster wheel of ambition. To Marshalls simple comment “never get fixated on outcomes” but also what he said of one CEO realising happiness is not based on only achievement, it's perfectly possible to achieve and be unhappy as it is not to achieve but also to be happy.
So Marshall poses the simple question does doing what we do make us happy? Does the principle that delayed gratification is worth it because of bigger rewards really make sense in terms of our happiness?
This deal I interestingly also feeds into what Marshall and I discussed around leadership development on the importance of keeping it simple. But what was really powerful was the research that Marshall did with Johnson and Johnson after having delivered a leadership development session when 98% of the audience said that they would go away and do the actions they promised. On following up 70% did something and 30% did nothing. The underlying reason why they didn't do anything was because they were too busy and their work was out of control. So they rationalised that putting off actions that would help them be more in control until after they were in control was a sensible rather than a slightly insane course of action. Of course in reality they never did get in control.
Perhaps this also points out my contention that there are a significant number of you out there who have never been given the task management skills that you need, prioritisation, time management, delegation, communication, giving feedback that you really need to be in control everyday.
If that's the case to Marshalls point admit to yourself, and maybe to those who can help you, that you do need help. To be blunt if Marshall Goldsmith admits to other people that he needs help sometimes, then certainly you and I probably need to. I’m looking at a way to help develop those key basic skills online at the moment, more on that soon.
This links to our discussion that decision's about what we do are generally significantly influenced by emotion, that intelligent people, even CEOs can sometimes do stupid things. But then they have the intellectual capability to make an emotional decision justified rationally. Yes, again this goes back to the fundamental question why am I doing this? Because if it is an emotional driver that we're trying to justify rationally ? What is that driver and why is it there?
Marshall's new book the “Earned Life” picks up on these points, the simple fact that if you take the view I am just the way I am then then you will never grow and develop, never move on, despite the world around you doing so. You may have heard of the phrase “ growth mindset” this is key to both individual and organisational success but this will only happen when people accept that they are able to change. And once they have done that ask the fundamental questions “why am I doing this” and “am I enjoying it”?
Also Marshall's really interesting point about the fact that we all say that empathy is good but in fact we need to ask more deeply what is that empathy about. Is it there to make us feel good more than adding value to the other person, is it likely to create dependency, to the key question is this empathy doing what the other person really needs now?
So what are the key thoughts and questions from Marshall I would suggest everybody thinks about
Am I going through life being present rather than on autopilot?
Why am I here I'm doing what I'm doing? What else could I be doing that would make me happier, even with less material rewards?
Am I enjoying my life, or am I just on a treadmill going from achievement to achievement and objective to objective? To Marshalls quote from the CEO of Pfizer when asked if he was happy about this year to which he said that he already had a problem which was next year.
So just ask yourself the question did I do my best to be happy today? And maybe help others be happy as well.
Finally perhaps reflect on Michael Phelps who achieved 28 Olympic swimming medals but then nearly committed suicide through depression but who now helps others regain their health and happiness and says that gives him way more sense of purpose than all the medals.
Perhaps let's finish on what Marshall has being signing off with ever since I have known him “life is good”.
With the previous guests and now Marshall hopefully you are seeing a pattern of simple actions you can take to be more successful. Share these interviews colleagues who would benefit so they can grow and develop with you. Certainly I will be using these powerful points in my speaking and Masterclasses in the future.
If you have any thoughts or questions contact me on LinkedIn or via email as detailed on the Perspectives website. don't forget to sign up to Perspectives from the Top. It's free, so you don't miss any of the more than 25 great episodes in the future.
That’s it for now, so from me its onwards and upwards until our next episode and again from Marshall “Life is good”!