Perspectives from the Top

The Race to Influence – The Power of Emotion (ft. Amanda Russell)

Episode Summary

Amanda Russell has made a career out of influence. But despite all of the buzzy connotations of that word, Amanda’s interpretation of influence goes much deeper than just a public figure selling a product. Get her perspective on this and much more on this week’s episode.

Episode Notes

The Race to Influence – The Power of Emotion (ft. Amanda Russell)

How Amanda Russell elevated a cutting-edge career into something more

OPENING QUOTE:

How do you get the people or the companies on board with you that give you the influence or the power to get to the next step? And you can't do it by asking for something, you have to create an opportunity for them. You have to get inside their head and think, what's in it for them? And how can I bring them value? How can we mutually want to achieve this?

—Amanda Russell

GUEST BIO:

Amanda Russell began her career as a runner, where she achieved Olympic level performance while developing her own personal brand. She then founded one of the first global digital fitness subscription channels on YouTube, subsequently helping other businesses build their brands via a digital production company. The expertise she developed in this role and as an expert in influence enabled her to help others seeking insight into this critical area for business. She's now a professor of marketing at both Northwestern and Texas universities, a Harvard case study author, advisory board member for Lamborghini, a women's leadership activist, and author of the bestselling book, The Influencer Code.

CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:

[6:40] - You Don’t Find Your Passion, You Choose It

An epiphany from a motel bathroom floor

A fellow running teammate once inspired Amanda as she dreaded the coming day’s competition, in which she would be running tired, injured, and overwhelmed. Her friend told her that once you’ve chosen a direction, you have to switch off the daily decision-making part of the brain, the part that doubts yourself. Take away the question of whether you feel like practicing or competing and just go. It’s not about finding something you love every single day, it’s about choosing what you want to pursue and choosing to pour your passion into it.

[24:14] - Partnerships vs. Transactions

The truth about influence marketing

Amanda speaks on the true power of what’s called influencer marketing. While on the surface it may seem transactional, it’s really about two parties creating opportunities for each other to achieve a similar goal. When those goals are closely aligned with a shared vision, influencer marketing can be a truly powerful thing for the personalities, brands, and audiences alike.

[27:41] - Goal. Observe. Resonate. Connect.

Amanda’s formula for transformative influence

Amanda begins by identifying the goal of an organization, then observing their end consumer in order to discover what moves them and influences them. Then, she identifies the most effective way to resonate with those users so that they’ll start paying attention. Finally, she connects with them on a deeper level than just products and brand names, creating an ongoing partnership that’s truly meaningful.

[45:54] - Compliment, Console, & Congratulate

Inspiring the people that surround us

If you want to have a meaningful positive impact on the people in your life, Amanda shares the three Cs shared with her by friend and public figure Jesse Itzler: complement, console, & congratulate. Take time to celebrate the victories and handle any bumps on the road without casting blame. Compliment people when it's deserved and console them when things are not going well in their life. This amazingly simple formula can lead to amazing lifelong partnerships.

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Episode Transcription

Amanda Russell:

How do you get the people or the companies on board with you that give you the influence or the power to get to the next step? And you can't do it by asking for something, you have to create an opportunity for them. You have to get inside their head and think, what's in it for them? And how can I bring them value? How can we mutually want to achieve this?

Chris Roebuck:

Welcome to Perspectives from the Top. I'm Chris Roebuck, global keynote speaker with unique leadership experience from military, business and government, bestselling author and your guide to greater success. Together, we'll discover powerful insights from the world's leading thinkers, doers and trailblazers, the must know trends, thought provoking revelations and practical actions you can use immediately. This is your exclusive and personal shop of insight and inspiration to help you get to the top.

Chris Roebuck:

Welcome to you and all of our Perspectives from the Top community of listeners. It's great to share the insights of such successful people with you to help you get to where you want to be. Now today, we have a great guest, Amanda Russell, whose career started in sport as a runner, where she achieved Olympic level performance, developing her own brand and then working to found one of the first global digital fitness subscription channels on YouTube, subsequently then helping other businesses build their brands via a digital production company. The expertise she developed doing that and becoming an expert in influence as well as having been an influencer, enabled her to help others seeking insight into this critical area for business. She's now professor of marketing at both Northwestern and Texas, a Harvard case study author, on the advisory board of Lamborghini, a women's leadership activist and author of the bestselling book, The Influencer Code. It's my great pleasure to welcome Amanda to Perspectives from the Top.

Chris Roebuck:

Amanda, welcome so much to Perspectives from the Top. And just to start off, one of the things that our listeners like to hear is that in the dim and distant past, before you started your journey, was there somebody who gave you an idea about where you might want to go in life, a teacher, a relative, a family member that just gave you a gem of an idea about where you wanted to get to?

Amanda Russell:

Yes. And first thank you for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. And there was absolutely somebody that influenced me. There was many actually throughout my career but when I look back, one that stands out most vividly was a high school teacher. And this young woman at the time, told me about the word, she introduced to me the idea of this scholarship. And I was from a small town in Canada and I was a small, young, uncoordinated, young woman. And she said that little, young, uncoordinated women built like me could gain athletic scholarships to places like the United States at top schools by submitting times from tracks. All I had to do was run and meet these times and I could write my ticket. And that opened my world but what really, really influenced not just that pivotal choice which dictated the course of my life but the fact that she had such confidence and care in me.

Amanda Russell:

And I recall before the biggest race of my little career to that point, she gave me this pep talk. And I sometimes tell my students about this pep talk because she was so confident and so stern and she said things to me that I had never told myself or no one had ever said to me before. And I know they were to build me up and they were things like, "There was no one faster than you. There is no one that can fight harder or attack it and own this race. This is your race if you choose it. When you get on that starting line, you need to know that there is your race and that no one can touch you." And those words, the way that she spoke them were so powerful, that subconsciously I learned the power of the mind and I won that race. I broke that record and I wrote my ticket to an athletic scholarship.

Amanda Russell:

But the point was that it was the way that I talked to myself. Had I got on that starting line and the way that I had been, oh, these girls are so much better than me. There's no way. I'm so scared. But when the way that you talk to yourself, the repeat in your mind. And then later on, my career pivoted and I sold my company and I began teaching and I found it very, very challenging in the beginning to take practice and be very good at what you do and then have to teach it is very different. And I've had some incredible professor mentors, including one of my favorites who has put his name behind me, the associate dean at Kellogg at Northwestern, sir Mohan Sawhney, who has just pushed the envelope on knowing what is possible and been open to the ideas as long as the work stood for itself and kind of coaching me on when to push the boundaries and when to put your head down and just be silent and work. I've had many throughout my career but those are the two that stand out.

Chris Roebuck:

That's a great story, especially about your comment about that first race and the power of psychology because that links into what I was going to ask you in that, from that point onwards, you became an Olympic level athlete. And within that achievement in itself, that must have required certain principles around training, around focus, both focus on the actual delivery of the race but also on the psychology. Talk to us about how what you learned to be an athlete of that quality, what it was and how it's helped you since.

Amanda Russell:

Chris, I'm so glad you asked the question. It's one of my favorite topics. It's a topic that has run my life literally for better and for worse. But I use running and sport in general, as the best metaphor for life. And there's a big push about following your passion. It's not about passion. Unless you've done everything in the world, how could you possibly know what your passion is? And oftentimes if you try to pursue your passion as a career, it's no longer a passion. It's about being passionate about what you do. It's about knowing your goal and knowing what it takes. There is no bone in my body that loved to pound the pavement day after day after day. That those miles, those mile repeats, the harsh conditions of the weather up in Canada, the hot weather when I came down to the US, the fact that everybody was going out and being social at my age and I was having to get up at 5:00 o'clock in the morning, I was on the road nonstop. The pressure to perform.

Amanda Russell:

And running is actually the most painful of all the sports. That's every sport's punishment. And that's what we did. And there were times in the beginning where I thought, oh my God, did I make the biggest mistake of my life? How did I get myself in? How am I going to get through this? And it was a teammate of mine. She was captain of our team at the time and I was new. And she said, and I was actually sitting in a motel bathroom on the road somewhere. We had to race the next day. And you race in all across America. And we were in some Podunk motel and I knew what I had to do the next day. And I knew the pressure from the coach of what times I had to run and once you win, there's nowhere to go but down, which is also a blessing and a curse.

Amanda Russell:

And I didn't see a way out. And I didn't see how I was going to pull it off. And I was injured at the time and that was adding to the pressure. I went to the bathroom and I was sitting on the floor and I was crying and she asked me what was wrong. And I said, "I don't know how you've been doing this for this many," she trained for four years. I said, "I don't know how did you get through this?"

Amanda Russell:

And she said, "You have two options. If you are going to feel this way, if you're going to get up every day and dread it and feel the pressure and be stressed out, you just cut your losses and quit right now. Otherwise, if you decide to do this and you want to go all the way, your mind is a machine and you need to flip off the switch in your mind that even allows you to think about it, to question whether or not you feel like practicing, whether or not you feel like racing, whether or not you doubt yourself. That lever needs to be turned off. And you can't think about it because soon as you let those thoughts creep into your head, you're over, it's over."

Amanda Russell:

And in that, I did learn the psychology of the mind but I also learned how it can be powerful to detriment because after the running career, you become that way no matter what is in front of you. You become hyper-competitive, you become nothing. And to the extent that it hurts personal relationships. I want to hire somebody that's like that but I don't want to be in a personal relationship with them because nothing comes between. They're unstoppable. And there's also something to be said about knowing the goal. And I think that's something that in business, they talk about that a lot but really, really knowing a goal so well that you don't care anymore, what people, and this is important in business, because this is where I see people get trapped.

Amanda Russell:

They care what people think. If you know your goal is to get to the Olympics, then you don't care that people on paper might say, "Well, you're not making any money right now," or that it looks like you're taking steps sideways or even backwards to get to your goal. But in business, we feel like if on paper what we are doing doesn't look like we are progressing forward, we don't do it. And I will say that in my career, I have made a lot of steps that seem not only sideways but often backwards or embarrassing to get to where I needed to go. And running taught me that and I think it's the best metaphor for life.

Chris Roebuck:

And I think it's to some degree within the athletic world, it's easy to get that absolute laser-like focus because it is about getting that time and winning that race. And it's a race so you do the training but once the gun goes off, it's the race. One of the challenges as you well know from business, is that unlike a race where you quite clearly see the start point and the finish point and it's I go from there to there, in the world of business, often it is not a straight line and it is made up of a number of sideways moves, the odd backward move, peak offs. That is the way business works.

Amanda Russell:

Yeah, absolutely it does. But also that's the way that the story behind many athletes is that's the way that it works. There are injuries, there are sickness, there are some of the greatest athletes for not. Look at the Michael Jordan story, Were Not the Greatest Athletes. There are challenges and bumps in the road. And I think the takeaway is that it's not easy. It's not straightforward. There are challenges. And you have to learn to adapt. What works for one athlete, what training plan works, does not work for someone else. And it's the same with business. There's no template that, oh, this worked for one business so it's going to work for the other. The takeaways or the discipline, the constant, relentless curiosity to keep trying, to keep figuring it out. And the almost in a way you need, there is an ego. Ego doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing. The ego, to be confident in what you're doing and the enough of the ego to not be embarrassed about what others are thinking about what you're doing.

Chris Roebuck:

It's that focus. Interestingly then, you talked about it being intellectual curiosity to move you forward because after you've done your athletics, you set up your own YouTube fitness channel and it was one of the first subscription channels in that field. That must have been quite a change in terms of how you were operating day to day and you're just moving from athletics into business. What gave you the idea? And how did it go?

Amanda Russell:

Yes. The transition wasn't right to that, it was that after my injury and I had a bit of an identity crisis of, oh my God, I can't go back to Canada and live with my parents. And so I wanted to go to the Olympics of what I thought was the corporate world, which was New York City but I had no work experience. And they were like, well, you need a work experience to get a visa sponsored. And so I used what I had. I competed on what I did have rather than experience, which was discipline. And that's where I really learned about influencer marketing. I was sponsored by Nike. I had qualified for Olympic trials and I used that story and sent boxes of my shoes to some of the best consulting firm based in New York.

Amanda Russell:

And I did that as a stepping stone to go back to business school, to save up enough money for a couple years, to get a visa, to go back to business school and figure out what I really wanted to do because I knew I wanted to own something and I didn't even know what that was. And when I did eventually go back to business school, I had to make money on the side but I had to do it off the books because I couldn't work legally and go to school. I started, this was when I was trying to get back into fitness but I couldn't run. I had to do a lot of non-impact. And so I started cycling and then I started doing all of these crazy workouts and whatever. And I remember someone saying, "Well, you should teach that." And so I did, I started putting up flyers, literal flyers in every single coffee shop in New York, every place I could that they'd tear them down, I put them back up, whatever. And I created.

Chris Roebuck:

Sorry, sorry, for listeners. Sorry, for listeners in this new digital world, I should explain that a flyer is a piece of printed paper that has your products on it, that you hand out. I'm sure they still have them somewhere but I haven't seen one.

Amanda Russell:

They definitely still have them but not quite as popular but I put them up everywhere. And I started doing bootcamps in Central Park and on the West Side Highway in New York. And I gathered this following of incredible people because the workouts were so hard. They were elite athlete workouts but without pounding the impact of your body. And the world is all about connection. One of the participants was an advertising guy and he told me, he was like, "What you're doing, have you seen this thing called, it's called YouTube." And so we met at a coffee shop, he was like, "I want to show it to you." We met at a coffee shop. He pulls it up on his computer because this was before cell phones had cameras or anything like that. And he was flabbergasted by it.

Amanda Russell:

And at the time there was really no structured content. It was all Dumb and Dumber style comedy and music and nothing really produced. And he said, "But all you need is a flip cam. You could go to Best Buy and buy a flip cam and shoot these in your apartment." And my dingers went off in my head and I thought, I was doing a marketing NBA and I thought, are we putting the cart before the horse by trying to create products and services and push them out there? Look at these people, there's not even a shtick and they have these cult-like followings that they could probably sell anything. I decided to make my thesis, I'm going to start a fitness channel. It costs no money except for a flip cam. And I'll do these workouts in my apartment.

Amanda Russell:

And that's how my fitness channel came because timing was very different back then. And I wanted to create like a television show, even though you know that YouTube videos could come out whenever. I created, I said, "New workouts every Wednesday." And I started with one show a week and it got popular. And then I started a second show and then I did more of a talk show style one as well. Because then as people learn about you, as you develop this community, they start to want to learn more about your lifestyle. What are you eating? What kind of skincare do you use? And that's what people usually, when I say I teach influencer marketing, they usually point back to my YouTube channel, my original YouTube channel that that was how I learned about influencer marketing. But that really was not how I learned about influencer marketing at all. That was how I learned about social media content creation.

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that flourished but that then led into you getting involved in more wider digital marketing because of the success of that. Tell us about how that sort of moved forward and therefore that must have started your building of your understanding of influence in terms of how it works.

Amanda Russell:

Yeah. This is really where I learned about influence. And I just say it's ironic because when I started, I was the stereotype of what influencer was, somebody that's doing fitness on YouTube. And it was actually the opportunities of just hawking free product or getting paid for product to me was just advertising on social media, just a new mechanism. And the irony was that I got frustrated when people started using the term influencer. And influence is an outcome, it's not a universal job title. And I quickly learned that the most profitable companies, the richest people, the award winning artists are not necessarily the most talented or the smartest or have the best product. They are just really good at three things. Number one, they know their goal.

Amanda Russell:

Number two, they know their audience and what vehicles. I say vehicles, influence them because an influencer doesn't necessarily have to be a person. It could be an article. It could be a doctor. And they know how to resonate and connect with them. And so I decided, YouTube I didn't own. If YouTube shut down tomorrow, that's not a business model for me. I just wanted to build a subscription model. And this was before people were comfortable really ordering tangible product online, let alone digital product. And I made a pitch to, I knew that I needed credibility and capital and people that knew what they were doing in a field that was so still unrespected and unknown. And I went to Trium Entertainment in Los Angeles. And that they were Trium at the time and they were television producers behind shows like Biggest Loser and Amazing Race and everything entertainment met fitness.

Amanda Russell:

And I pitched to them this idea of being my partner. I said, "Let me be your guinea pig. I already have this audience. You need to get into digital." And so together we ended up, they said, yes, and we ended up becoming 50% business partners, 50/50 business partners and building out one of the first subscription models. Well, in doing so, we couldn't hire anyone because no one really knew, there were no templates. There were no just build it yourself. And it was one of the greatest learning experiences.

Amanda Russell:

And I realized that, I actually, we are the experts now. We do know what to do. We had to hire people and teach them how to shoot for digital, how to edit for digital, how to create content and nurture communities. And we got to a pivotal moment when I signed with one of the biggest fitness managers in the world and then they wanted to do a reality show and they wanted to hire me a social media team. And I realized, and Mark Koops, who was one of the partners at Trium had to have a sit down conversation with me because I realized I really did not want to be on the camera. I didn't want to be the talent. And I was really more fascinated with the business behind it and building the business.

Amanda Russell:

And so he said, "You either need to own this," basically the same conversation that my teammate had had all those years ago. You either need to step into this and be the character, be the persona and let the world and be a big public and let yourself be public or you need to step out. And unlike the running, I knew that I needed to step out and that my super skill was connecting opportunities and people and bringing things together and building businesses and scaling businesses. And so I started sort of an ad hoc at the time boutique agency that started creating fitness content specifically we had a niche fitness. When all these publications started building their online models, Women's Health, Men's Health, WebMD, livestrong.com. You name it, we worked, even Lionsgate had their fit platform.

Amanda Russell:

Every major media company had a fitness or wellness platform. And I sort of became a go to from casting trainers, to shooting content, to creating content, to doing collaborative deals. And so that was how that happened. And one of the big takeaways that came through the idea of my obsession with influence was nothing to do with paying to post a product but really, how do you get the people or the companies on board with you that give you the influence or the power to get to the next step? And you can't do it by asking for something. You have to really create. You have to create an opportunity for them. You have to get inside their head and think, what's in it for them? And how can I bring them value? How can we mutually want to achieve this? That's the only way, otherwise it's just a transaction.

Chris Roebuck:

And that's the key point, is it not? About influencer marketing, that it isn't a transaction. It's a sort of partnership with a common purpose.

Amanda Russell:

Exactly. It's a partnership. I wish they would call it that. And I wish they would stop using the word influencer. Everyone's an influencer. To call one sort of content creator an influencer is sort of putting blinders on the transformative use of what it really is.

Chris Roebuck:

But I think that's a really important point for our listeners because you've said it so eloquently that there is this confusion with what one might construe to be influencers, be they on television or social media, which is a person that influences potentially other people but the whole concept of influence, which anybody can do around how I move to the next level through working in partnership, be I an individual or be I an organization. And also, I think it's maybe worth saying, you're the expert, maybe it's worth saying that actually, depending on how you interact with people, you can actually logically be a negative influencer in terms of how you work.

Amanda Russell:

100%. Everything in this world can be positive or negative. Influence can be positive and can be negative. Social media can be positive, it can be negative. And I think you had this, which led to our next topic, which was, you had asked a little bit about influencer marketing is such a buzz term, it's leading edge, but to explain who is an influencer? And how it works. And we just sort of covered that. To understand influencer marketing, you must first understand influence which, Chris, is different than persuasion. It's different than simply being known. It's different than manipulation. Influence is the ability to cause action. And it's at the core of everything we do in business. It's not something you need to think about doing. It's actually essential. To be in business, to grow your business, you need to be able to influence.

Amanda Russell:

Therefore, what is an influencer? An influencer is the vehicle that causes that action. Whether that vehicle is an article in a publication or a friend who tells you about a great new smoothie or Oprah's Book Club sticker slapped on your book. It's as I said earlier, it's not the smartest person who gets the job or the best idea that gets the funding or the best product that becomes the big cult-like business. It's the person, the company that knows and I call it the code in my book, the goal, their audience and what really matters to that audience and where they're going to make those decisions. And then how, I call those the vehicles, the influencers, then how you as a company partner, connect, resonate with those vehicles of influence. And if you can do this, there's no opportunity that's off the table. It's not even about reaching potential, it's so much more powerful than that. Once you get it, it's transformative.

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Sorry, so it's connect, resonate and then partner?

Amanda Russell:

I say it's goal, observe.

Chris Roebuck:

Goal.

Amanda Russell:

And observe is two phases. Observe your end user, your end consumer, in order to observe who and what is influencing them. And then it's resonate and connect.

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And sorry, going back to our previous point, once you've connected, it's then about an ongoing partnership.

Amanda Russell:

100%, it's a long term. We got to think of it not like a one night stand but like a marriage.

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah, yeah. And the point that I think listeners should bear in mind, is that everything that Amanda and I are discussing now that relates to organizations and business actually relates to in particular leaders and how they interact with people because every leader has a brand in terms of how they are perceived by other people and every leader has the ability to influence others and if leaders want to achieve their key objectives, they have to influence in the right way, the right people. Is that not so as well?

Amanda Russell:

Yes. And I've thought a lot about this question and I think about what really makes a great leader. And there's so many things and list endless things. And I think good brands, good leaders make people feel good. And whereas great brands and great leaders make people feel good about themselves.

Chris Roebuck:

Interesting.

Amanda Russell:

I don't think it's about changing what you do. It's about changing how you communicate because they throw out these jargon words and I hear them on podcasts all the time. Care for your employees and be empowering and all of these kind of things but what does that mean? And I think it's the most powerful brands and leaders are so interested, not just in making people feel good but making people feel good about what they do, what they're selling, what they make, that they make them proud to be there. Great leaders make people feel good about themselves. And how do they do that? They observe. They listen, they constantly ask questions but not just any questions, they ask quality questions. They are continuously curious about their audience. Whether that audience is their employees or end user because when somebody feels genuinely cared about, their wellbeing, when they feel like you are really invested in their wellbeing, when you have a great relationship, regardless of whether they like the product or not even, they are happy to be around you and they want to work for you, they want to make you proud.

Chris Roebuck:

And that's really interesting because the phraseology around leadership is that it's important to show people that you care and that that can produce 25% more effort. But what you are saying is actually we need to go down one level deeper, which is you show your people that you care about them but the end objective of that is to make those people through what you do, feel good about themselves.

Amanda Russell:

And I experiment all the time and I love especially hiring some of my former students. And it's amazing to watch. It's easy to care about. Of course I care about them naturally but it's amazing to pull them aside and say, "You've got a real special talent for this. You really can do something that very few people can." And the way they light up and the way they change their behavior and how they above and beyond that they decide to go. Sometimes they change directions. It's amazing to see that. Making them feel good about themselves and making them feel proud about the work that they're doing, invested in it.

Chris Roebuck:

And what I find interesting about this and our discussion is that essentially what we're picking up on here, the making them feel good about themselves is actually an emotional thing. This isn't rational. This is emotional. And we know from the neuroscience that actually these responses are to some degree automatic in people. If you do the sort of things that you're talking about, if you genuinely show you care and through that enable them to feel good about themselves, produces through the neuroscience, a response that is so positive, it then produces the effect that you've just described, which is people just going for it. And one of the things I find fascinating is that I think too often leaders in organizations completely underestimate the power of emotion in terms of how they influence and how they get things done.

Amanda Russell:

Yes. Especially in B to B, we think that we're more rational and logical, but we're not, we're controlled by emotions. And then we rationalize and justify our behavior logistically. And you're right. I think words matter and actions matter but emotion and connection matter more. And at the beginning, this is something that I do, at the beginning of every new project, course, team consulting job, workshop, I ask my students, colleagues, employees to share memories that they cherish most. And they usually answer stories with things like Christmas memories or elementary school teachers, like how I shared with you or some fun party or something along those lines. I then ask them why they remember those stories and not the others. And then we discuss how they learned to drive or ride a bicycle. And if they think it's possible to learn to ride a bicycle or dance just by reading a book. And most of them say, "No, to ride a bike or to dance, we have to ride a bike or dance."

Amanda Russell:

And so after a brief discussion, I tell them my vision, and this is where I really believe leading happens at three level three key levels. The mind, which is they have to know the concepts. The heart, which is your emotion, engagement and participation with them. And the body, the actual ability to do this. I believe in taking a personal interest. I wouldn't do what I do, I don't believe in getting up every day to do things that if you don't care about the people you're working with. I believe in taking a personal interest, a consistent engagement and constant dialogue, constantly asking questions. Being in communication with your team is another relevant, key to great leadership.

Amanda Russell:

And yes, all of this matters. And in order for us to be better leaders, we have to understand the role of emotions because if you think about it, we don't buy from a brand. We buy into a brand. Even in B to B, as I said, where people think they're making rational decisions, they're not, they're making them on emotions. And they're justifying. Actually, Mary Angelo said it best. She said, "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did but people will never forget how you made them feel." As leaders, how can you make something more emotional? And people resonate with story. We need to start humanizing the experience. Storytelling is one of the best levers as a marketer to pull when trying to create emotional connection.

Amanda Russell:

It's like fuel that keeps the car running. And so stop talking about yourself, your products, what you're trying to achieve. That's just a bad blind date. It's about finding out what you are and what your audience aspiration is and where is that intersection? And how do you know if you're successful or not? When staff members tell me the story or analogy that I told that resonated with them or that they saw a connection that they were trying to accomplish, I know that I've made a connection. To summarize, I view leading as an integral part of the complex human process, where there's structure of content, there's deep human connection and engagement and there's an application of knowledge that are fundamental to the success of the organization as a whole.

Chris Roebuck:

And that approach, it's interesting that obviously you have been an entrepreneur, you set up two businesses, you've been successful, but you've also within the professional context, advised large organizations. And what I think is really interesting is that often people say that entrepreneurs are very, very different to people who work in the corporate world. And I'd be interested to say though, to get your perspective, yes, there is a difference between the entrepreneur and the corporate executive but one of the things I've found over my career is that the power of the entrepreneur in terms of that mindset of seeking opportunity, is actually also a fundamental key for success for the larger organization because if larger organizations stop looking for opportunity, then they're not going anywhere.

Chris Roebuck:

And then again, you can flip it around and having had other guests, like Anath, who invests for Siemens in startups said, "One of the really interesting things is the startups that actually fly the best are where the founder has had a little bit of time in the corporate world to understand process quality and all the rest of it and then become a founder. And some of the most inspiring people that I have met in the corporate world have at some point been in a small business." And I just think there's this beautiful playoff between the two that so many people ignore when we put it into, this is the entrepreneur box, and this is the corporate box. What do you think on that?

Amanda Russell:

I couldn't agree more with that statement that I think everyone should work for somebody else at some point. I think there's so much value in that, in working under people. Entrepreneur is different than it once was. Now everybody wants at some point to become an entrepreneur. But to answer the question, entrepreneurs are humans and as humans, we all have weaknesses. In the cases of an entrepreneur, the very entrepreneurial spirit, usually they're really good at something and they've spent years growing their businesses through brute force, great ideas and a drive to succeed. But that doesn't mean that they understand how to build a team, how to maintain a positive culture or in many cases, how to lead an organization. And these blind spots and pitfalls along the way can be avoided and corrected if they take the right steps.

Amanda Russell:

I think every entrepreneur needs to ask themselves this question, am I a good leader? And not being so isn't necessarily a bad thing. We're not all born leaders. It's something that can be learned. You've been focusing on other things. You've been focusing on your craft and you can become a great leader once you're aware. The problem is, was that when they refused to ask the question, when they refuse to reflect on the fail to inspire people, and that's what holds them back. For example, ask yourself, do you insist on doing everything your way? Are you kind of grumpy at the office when you're stressed out? Do people avoid coming to you with problems? And if you answer yes to some of these, then some start with some self reflection and seek out ways to improve. There's endless books, articles, seminars, coaches. Leadership can be learned.

Amanda Russell:

And then lastly, I need to add this. I think great leaders make hard decisions and they are confident in their decisions or directives. The ability to make fast, difficult decisions with limited information is critical. And when facing a tough decisions, effective leaders start by determining the goal. What are we trying to achieve? They consider the likelihood of all the consequences of all the decisions and all the alternative available alternatives and they make the decisions with conviction, confidence and they take responsibility and follow it through. I think of it as an art and a science. And for people to be led by you, they need to know that you are capable. You're not wishy washy. You make decisions and you are confident and you stand behind them.

Chris Roebuck:

And what is interesting in your comment was one of our other guests, Marshall Goldsmith, who is one of the top, if not the top leadership coach for business CEOs in the world, one of the things he says is, "It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't matter if you are a first line manager or a CEO, at some point in time, you will need help because you cannot do any everything. You do not understand everything. And sometimes you just need to listen to somebody else."

Amanda Russell:

Well, I think that was probably part of my answer to your final question of this. I love that.

Chris Roebuck:

I just think it's so true. Even if you're the CEO of a global company, at some point in time something's going to come up and you're just going to have to say, "Actually, I need to speak to someone. I don't know the answer to that one." I think that's really interesting, what you've said. In your more sort of broader sense, you're a champion of women leaders, you're also involved with advising Lamborghini, which is interesting because the automotive world is pretty much a male dominated world. How do you sort of work in those sort of male dominated worlds? And how does all of that interlink your sort of commercial work and your academic work with MBA students to keep you busy and keep you focused?

Amanda Russell:

I hate to say it but I've often found, I think I've got such a strong devotion to creating connections with other women leaders because I've often found that the women who talk about empowering others have been the least empowering. And I actually started a conference called Renaissance Women because of this. And I make it a point every semester to hire at least one of my top female students to work with me, to mentor them and to do what I wish an admirable female leader would've done for me, open doors. There's more than enough space for all of us. I don't believe in competition. I believe in collaboration and that's actually what I used to call influencer marketing and they used a term influencer marketing, which got all convoluted.

Amanda Russell:

But I think all of these work in tandem because influencer marketing is really about connection and collaboration and partnership and how can we scale bigger together? It seems like they're all over the place but they're all connected. It's how can we find the best at doing what they're doing? And how can we help them better achieve their goals and they better achieve our goals if we're all after similar objectives?

Chris Roebuck:

Yeah. It's about, as you said, in the end, when you've created that connection, it is about a partnership that enables us both. Be we organizations or people, to get to where we want to be together. If you looking at getting one piece of advice to leaders, what would it be for them to be better as of tomorrow?

Amanda Russell:

One piece is really hard but I think there's a bullet point.

Chris Roebuck:

All right, I'll let you have two.

Amanda Russell:

Number one would be know your weaknesses, just like you had just mentioned. If you're going to do something really well, you're going to do other things really poorly. No matter how great you are, great leaders identify the areas they need the best help. And this informs the hiring and the company structure and the culture. Play to your strengths, identify your weaknesses, make it your goal not to be the smartest person in the room. Let people do what they do well and you'll not only find that your business runs more smoothly but you'll have more time to do what you do best.

Amanda Russell:

And number two is to understand your people. I use the code in my book but that's constantly ask questions, engage with them, understand what's important to them. What makes them differentiated? What makes them special? How do you make them feel like the best version of themselves? How do you motivate them? My friend, Jesse Itzler has this rule of three, three C's, compliment, console and congratulate. And it's so important. That means take time to celebrate the victories and handle any bumps on the road without casting blame. Compliment them when it's deserved and console them when things are not going well in their life. You want loyalty. These are the things to do. Do not think about it as acquiring a customer or just putting someone on a payroll but rather building a relationship.

Chris Roebuck:

And that goes back to the point that fundamentally we're all human beings and we all want to enjoy our work and enjoy our lives. And if we work together to achieve that, it's all going to go so much better. And then how can people learn more about you, your book? Just give us a brief one liner on your book and what you do in terms of your academic work and other areas.

Amanda Russell:

Absolutely. My book is The Influencer Code. It's on Amazon. It's everywhere. It's on my website, which is amandarussell.co, not.com, with two S's and two L's in Russell. I'm on LinkedIn. And currently I've implemented a program on influence and marketing alongside the associate dean at Kellogg at Northwestern and I'm building out the Center for Influence at the University of Texas Austin, starting in the fall. And part of it is doing all kinds of partnerships with global institutions and corporations. If you're listening to this and you're interested in becoming involved or having a workshop, please reach out, contact me. I live, breathe and love this stuff and I love connecting with great people. Thank you so much for your time and for having me.

Chris Roebuck:

My pleasure.

Amanda Russell:

Pleasure and a privilege.

Chris Roebuck:

And listen, for our listeners there, there is just some amazing things that Amanda has said. Those little checklists, the three C's. What is it? Compliment, console and what was the third one? I've forgotten.

Amanda Russell:

Compliment, console and congratulate.

Chris Roebuck:

And congratulate. Just simple things that you can go and do as of tomorrow. Amanda, thank you so much for your time. It's been great to see you and keep up the great work, inspiring people.

Amanda Russell:

You as well. Thanks for having me, Chris

Chris Roebuck:

Pleasure.

Chris Roebuck:

So many great insights from Amanda there. The interesting dynamic of the start of her career as an athlete, where having a powerful focus on your objective, plus motivating milestones to ensure you're not running junk miles, set up her psychology, that now enables Amanda to be successful in her other endeavors. But on top of that, the addition of the importance of influence is key. How do you influence was the key question Amanda answered, which links into what other guests have said. That it's really vital to understand the other person's perspective and needs, to help them go on the journey with you with common purpose. That to do that, you need to build trust. At work, we all have to be able to influence to get things done because quite simply, we can't do it all ourselves. And that doesn't just apply to leaders, that applies to everybody. As Amanda said, it also applies to B to B, with customers, with investors and anyone else an organization interacts with.

Chris Roebuck:

Then it's about what's the best means by which to most effectively influence in each situation? And to be honest, it also applies in our personal lives. We need other people on side for us to get done what we need to get done. That simple. As I've said before, success is easier when you work on the we, not just me principle.

Chris Roebuck:

Have a think about how you can use some of Amanda's ideas to help you get to where you want to be. And certainly I'll be feeding some of them into my keynotes and masterclasses to help my audiences in the future. Now don't forget that in a week, I will give you more in depth view of the key takeaways from Amanda, my insights and ideas for action, in my reflections on the top. And if you've used any of those insights that you've got from Perspectives and they've helped you, send me your success stories, I'd love to hear them. And also don't forget to sign up on the website so you don't miss any of the great episodes coming up. And also if you like, connect with me on LinkedIn.

Chris Roebuck:

Thanks for tuning in, check out the show notes from today's episodes at prospectivesfromthetop.com, where you can not only enjoy additional resources from today's show but all previous ones. If you haven't already, subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your favorite podcasts, so you don't miss any. And if you really enjoyed the show, please give us a five star rating and review. Have a question or comment? Let's discuss it. Message me on LinkedIn. Perspectives from the Top is produced in collaboration with Detroit Podcast Studios. Have a successful week, use today's new learnings and actions and remember, it's onwards and upwards. See you next time on Perspectives from the Top.