This week’s guest brings a truly unique vault of experiences to our listeners, from the high-stakes work of bomb disposal to high pressure roles in the CIA, Strategic Air Command, and the world of investing. Listen as Reynold Hoover shares his powerful perspectives on leadership, purpose, and more.
Trust Your People, Free Yourself (ft. Reynold Hoover)
An accomplished retired Lieutenant General on trust, leadership, & innovation
OPENING QUOTE:
“The quicker that you can understand that you can trust and empower your team, and those people that are on your team who are doing it, the more time that you'll have to start thinking strategically, the more freedom you'll have to start thinking of the next great idea, and the next great product, and the next great capability that's part of that entrepreneurial spirit.”
-Reynold Hoover
GUEST BIO:
Reynold Hoover practiced as a lawyer before joining the military as a bomb disposal specialist. After a series of military roles, Hoover went on to command the Alabama Army National Guard and serve in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He’s also served in the government as a FEMA Chief of Staff, Deputy Director of Public Affairs for the CIA, and special assistant to George W. Bush for Homeland Security. After commanding Northern Strategic Air Command, Hoover entered the private sector as a partner at Donovan Capital, an investor in aerospace, defense, and government service organizations.
Somehow, he still finds time to teach future generals at the Air Force academy at West Point and serve on the board of multiple service charities.
Links:
CORE TOPICS + DETAILS:
[2:59] - Just Enough Rope
Reynold reflects on a special boss
Many of the lessons that would become foundational to Reynold’s career began on the Panama Canal in 1999. At this critical political touchpoint, Reynold’s boss brought him down to the area and asked him to manage a particularly sensitive project relating to unexploded ordnance along the canal. Along the way, this boss taught Reynold the power of giving employees the autonomy to act on their own as well as the support and resources to excel.
[7:11] - Competence, Perspective, & Diversity
Three keys for great leadership
When asked about the common leadership factors that cut across all sectors, Reynold lists competence, perspective, and diversity in hiring/team selection. Competence leads to confidence, which leads to better decision-making. Taking time to see the bigger picture leads to more strategic thinking. Diverse teams provide diverse ways of thinking, experiences, and skill sets, which lead to greater achievement.
[20:32] - Teaching to Delegate
Trust your people, transform your organization
Whenever Reynold speaks at a leadership conference, he asks how many people in the audience have ever been given formalized training on how to delegate day-to-day tasks. The result? Never more than 1 in 4. Delegation is a skill that compounds on itself, because it harnesses the countless skills of all the people around you. Learn to delegate yourself and teach the leaders around you to do the same and watch how you achieve more and burn out less.
[26:47] - Get Out of the Forest
The importance of taking time to reflect
Reynold encourages every leader, in the military or in the private sector, to block out time in your schedule to simply think strategically. It’s so easy to be constantly caught up in the day-to-day crises and needs of our organizations that we never take time to be creative and look toward the future. When we do, the results can be transformative.
[40:08] - Never Stop Learning, Never Stop Connecting
Simple message, infinite results
Reynold’s final advice for C-suite executives and leaders in any role? Commit to both continuous learning and continuous networking. While these might seem like two separate principles, they’re connected by the difficult-to-embrace fact that you don’t have all the answers, all the skills, all the connections. There is always something new to learn, or someone new to expand your perspective— and your network.
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CREDITS:
Reynold Hoover:
The quicker that you can understand that you can trust and empower your team, and those people that are on your team who are doing it, the more time that you'll have to start thinking strategically, the more freedom you'll have to start thinking of the next great idea, and the next great product, and the next great capability that's part of that entrepreneurial spirit.
Chris Roebuck:
Welcome to Perspectives from the Top. I'm Chris Roebuck, global keynote speaker with unique leadership experience from military, business, and government best selling author, and your guide to greater success. Together, we'll discover powerful insights from the world's leading thinkers, doers, and trailblazers. The must know trends, thought-provoking revelations, and practical actions you can use immediately. This is your exclusive, and personal shock of insight and inspiration to help you get to the top. Welcome to you, and all of our Perspectives from the Top community. Now in 46 countries across the world. That's another three since the last interview, it's great to share the insights of such successful people with you to help you get to where you want to be. Today's guest is Reynold Hoover, who has unique experience in military business and government. He practiced as a lawyer before joining the military, where he was primarily working in bomb disposal. And as a military engineer myself, I know that is a job you do not want to make mistakes in.
Chris Roebuck:
After a number of roles, he then went on to command the Alabama Army National Guard and served in Iraq and Afghanistan, but he also served in government as chief of staff at FEMA, Federal Emergency and Management Agency, served in the CIA as deputy director of public affairs, with special assistant to president George Bush for Homeland Security, and then commanded Northern Strategic Air Command. He's now a partner of Donovan Capital, which invests in aerospace, defense, and government service organizations. However, he still finds time to teach future generals at West Point, and to serve on the boards of service charities. Hi, Reynold, you've been in legal practice, military CIA government, and now financial services. So over your career, you've had a few bosses to say the least, and some of them must have inspired you. Can you give our listeners an example of one of them and what they did that was so special for you?
Reynold Hoover:
Well, hi, Chris, and thanks for having me on Perspectives from the Top. I have had a lot of bosses, and a lot of jobs, maybe that speaks to my inability to hold a job except for being in uniform. But as I think back on my career, and I think back on what is the... Who is that best boss along the way? I've had a number of them. But what I want to do is go back to one particular boss that I had, a group commander, so he was colonel. I was a major, it was 1997. The United States was in the middle of getting ready to turn the Panama Canal over to the government of Panama in December of 1999. And the last remaining issue between our two countries was what to do at the unexploded ordinance on the more than 55,000 acres of rains land that was in Panama, the treaty required us to remove all hazards, and so far as maybe practicable, and that was the sticking point.
Reynold Hoover:
My boss took me down there. We surveyed the problem. We looked around, we got all kinds of briefings, and we sat down at dinner that night and he said, "Well, what do you think Reynold?" And I said, "Well, sir, yeah, we could do it."
Reynold Hoover:
And we went in the next day, we briefed General Kensinger, who was the US army south commander, and his chief engineer on the problem set, and what we thought we could bring to bear in terms of unexploded ordinance capability to help clean up the ranges, and fix the problem. And I walked out as the commander of the EOD task force in charge of cleaning up the ranges as a major. And so that sparked a two year saga, not saga, but I would say a two year experience for me in which I was exposed to international diplomacy, interagency policy making, multicultural awareness, strategic communication, crisis leadership. And I found out the value of the power of relationships, of trust building, of confidence, and confidence in your abilities, and most important to anticipate the unexpected. And while there are a lot of great bosses I've had along the way, I would say that this guy, Jim Sprawl was the guy that gave me that first opportunity to build a foundation from which I then got into all kinds of other things and other jobs and other experiences.
Reynold Hoover:
And to me, as I said, I've had great bosses all along my career. And I had some pretty bad ones along my career, but this guy was the one that saw something in me, and gave me just enough rope and let me go and do it. And ultimately we were successful. We met our treaty obligations, and I spent a great time in Panama, leading people, and getting to know the country of Panama, and I love it. My interpreter said, "Once you drink from the Chagres River you'll always come back for more." And I believe there's something to it.
Chris Roebuck:
That's a really, really insightful story, in that, what it shows me, is that to some degree, it's not just in the military, it's whether on that first key leadership appointment you get in your career, you actually do have a boss that is a best boss, that gives you the opportunity, because then that is the first time that your potential is actually unleashed. And you are given the freedom. When you look back at that experience, and the other bosses that you've had, do you see in each of them common factors that are things that those sort of bosses do every day that actually make them different from other bosses, and perhaps might even be the reverse of what bad bosses do?
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, I think that there are maybe three, I would say, common leadership factors that cut across the commercial sector, as well as the military, and uniform that really makes people successful. And I would say the very first is just competence, right? And by competence, I don't mean expert, right? Because I think that the really good leaders are those who are competent, and recognize that you don't have to be the smartest person in the room all the time, right? But with confidence comes confidence in what you're trying to do and what you're trying to achieve, and then builds trust in your organization. Because if you trust the people that work for you, and with you, and around you, the organization itself is going to be culturally stronger, as well as stronger in terms of ROI.
Reynold Hoover:
And it just builds a much stronger a bench of an is across, both up, down, and across the organization. And I think the next factor besides this notion of competency, and confidence is the ability to see more broadly, right? So when you're in the fight day to day, you see all the trees in the forest, but you don't see the forest and you don't see the big picture. And so I think this really successful leaders, both in and out of uniform, and the private sector, as well as the public sector are those that have that ability to take a moment, and while you're in the thick of it, be actually able to step back, and see the bigger problem, and see much more strategically. And that's a hard skillset to be able to do. And the third one, I think is just building a strong and diverse team. You can't have everybody looking the same, and expect that you're going to have a really great performing team because we'll all end up thinking the same way, and that just doesn't work.
Chris Roebuck:
That sort of perspective, I like the way you... The humility bit comes in. The fact that even though you are the leader, the boss, you are not separate from the team, you are part of the team. You need the team, the team supports you support the team, because one of the things I've done over the last 10, 12 years is I've asked leaders around the world, exactly the same question as I've asked you about. What did your best boss do day to day? And it was really, really interesting that consistently simple day to day actions came up wherever I asked the question, the thing is just, they let me get on with it, and didn't interfere.
Chris Roebuck:
They actually knew that I actually knew more about it than they did. So they asked me for my ideas. They told me what was going on. They led by example, they were open, honest. They developed me, supported me. Even understood I made genuine mistakes sometimes, but above all, it was about building trust, and showing they genuinely cared about me. And I think that's... If you look at that to some degree, in those things I've just mentioned, there's an awful lot of emotional power, not just about doing the job. And is that one of the factors that you great leadership, it is that emotional linkage as well?
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, I think that's right, Chris. I think, and if you could just distill it to one word, it is inspires others, right? And there's so many branches, and sequels that come off of that notion of inspiring others. You can inspire others to have continuous learning. You can inspire others to run their first race, a 5K or a one mile. You can inspire others to achieve other greatness. I mean, there's so many branches, and sequels by having that emotional connection with your team, and really building that trust in the organization.
Chris Roebuck:
And the commonality, I think, of the things we are talking about is interesting because given your breadth of experience, if you think about what makes leaders successful, it's those things. Which logically then makes team successful, which logically then makes organizations successful. So, perhaps, are we saying that it doesn't actually matter where the leader is or where the organization is, if all the leaders be it a law firm or the CIA, do these things, the organization's likely to be successful? Is that what you've seen over that breadth of your career as well?
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, so I don't know if all organizations can develop that best boss, or develop that best leader. And I think there's a lot of example that you could probably cite both in, and out of uniform of organizations where there were... We thought we had a great leader that was at the helm, it turned out not so much, right? And I think where we're going today, at least in the army, we have made a concerted investment in trying to identify toxic leadership before we put people into command, right? And so we're doing it now in the army at the battalion command level, right? So that's the lieutenant colonels that are out there. We're putting them through an assessment process to see if there ways, and indicators that would indicate toxic leadership so we don't put those people into the organization, and then we're doing it again now for the colonels, for the 06, the brigade level commanders. And I think, as an organization, we owe it to the people that we lead to try to find, and identify, and weed out that toxic leadership before they reach the C-suite, before they reach the command assignments.
Reynold Hoover:
It is worth the time, the resources, and the energy to do that. And as a result, and I think this gets back to your question about can an organization develop great bosses? I think they can, but the organizations of today are not the organizations that our parents were in where your mom, or your dad got into a company and stayed there for a career. People aren't doing that anymore. And so the organization doesn't have that ability to build and develop key leaders who understand the culture of the organization, who understand the people in the organization. And so part of now trying to identify those best bosses, I think, is that investment in identifying what makes somebody a toxic leader, make sure that you're not bringing that into the organization. To me, that's where you're going to get a better return on investment.
Chris Roebuck:
That's a very valid point, and certainly obviously within the context of the military, as in terms of almost everything with the military, because of what the military does, the consequences of getting it wrong are loss of life.
Reynold Hoover:
Huge.
Chris Roebuck:
Absolutely huge.
Reynold Hoover:
That's right.
Chris Roebuck:
Whereas, okay, to some degree in some commercial organizations, it's only, we might lose a bit of money, but no one is going to die, so, therefore. However, your point is absolutely valid in that I think the challenge of toxic bosses is just as great for commercial organizations as it is for the military. The question as to whether the commercial organization has either the attention span, or the ability to pick up the toxic activity as effectively as the military might is questionable. But within that, what is really, really powerful is that there's a fundamental difference in terms of who's going to be a leader in the military versus the commercial world in that clearly the military recruits on the basis of leadership potential, and then puts in place technical capability, whereas the commercial world recruits on the basis of technical capability and then hopes that at some point in time, it can actually add some leadership on top.
Chris Roebuck:
Normally, after the person has just been appointed to the role, and they realize that their leadership capability isn't good enough for the role. And then it's a sort of catching the horse after it's bolted out the stable, and halfway down the road. So, there is, I think there's fundamental differences between the two, but you are right, the point applies. It's how can you Develop the best leaders, but avoid the worst leaders? And some people are stars and some people are just competent.
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, that's right. And I think the advantage that the military has, as you know, I mean the military is a profession of arms, and we have, to develop leaders over a career 20 years, a 30 year career, even a 40 year career, right? And we start with, at the officer level, maybe at Sandhurst, as you did, or West Point as I did, or in the non-commissioned officer career at one of the basic training installations. I mean, that's where we start training. And then it is a lifelong learning process. And I think that's key to successful leadership, right? So we start, as you said training, and identifying, and building over the career of an individual. So that by the time that person makes one star, two star, three star, four star general officer, or flag officer, or it becomes the senior enlisted advisor to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
Reynold Hoover:
Or whatever the equivalent is in the UK, on the enlisted side of the house, we've invested over the career in a profession of arms, whereas in the private sector, it's different. It is a very competitive marketplace, right? Top talent, and top leaders are competitively recruited, and they're competitively priced. And they're put into organizations In a very competitive market space. And they don't have, we hope, that they have developed all of those things that we think of in the military, as in that profession of arms, that they've developed those skills over of time. In some cases, not so much, you put a CEO, and you're paying them a lot of money at the top of an organization, or a senior executive at the top of an organization. They need to learn the organization. They need to learn the culture.
Reynold Hoover:
They need to learn the people. They need to learn the business. I used to say when you hire a GS15 in the federal government, that's not an entry level job, right? I mean, we expect you already to know the job, but the fact is they really don't know the job because there's so much learning that has to happen. And in the commercial world sometimes it works, and as you pointed out, sometimes doesn't work and you just can't measure how effective they are just based on a great return on your revenue, or looking at the balance sheet. That's not what makes a great leader, I don't think.
Chris Roebuck:
The comparison is also interesting in terms, I think, of how commercial organizations get people capable to be first line leaders versus the military, in that they will recruit on that technical capability. But as you and I, and any of our listeners who are ex-military know, the first thing you do is you are taught how to make task successful. You are taught the absolute basics of enabling a team to achieve its objectives through prioritization, through time management, through delegation, through giving feedback, through clear communication. And those things are an absolutely critical foundation for any leader to be effective. And that is stage one within the military, because you can't organize other people unless you can organize yourself. But it's interesting that the commercial world often neglects that at first line management level. For example, when I'm speaking around the world, I ask every single audience, how many people in the audience, and these are middle line managers to C-suite. How many of you in this audience have ever been given any formalized training, or development on how to delegate day to day?
Chris Roebuck:
Never in the last five years have more than 25% of the hands gone up. And so what we're saying is we're saying as a sort of quick assessment, 75% of the leaders, I have contacted over the last five years have not been taught how to delegate effectively. And as a result of that, inevitably, there is an issue around their effectiveness, as a leader. And to your point, that's the opposite end of the C-suite issue, which is having too much to do, too broad, being able to understand a broader agenda, and lead that broader agenda. That's down to the micro level, which is you need to have those key skills in place. And have you, thinking about the leaders you've seen in the commercial world, have you seen that perhaps that shortfall has impacted their ability to simply get stuff done?
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah. Chris, those are really great observations. And I think one of the things in some of the companies that I've worked with, especially, entrepreneurial companies, right, where they've done a great job, and they're very successful, and they have 20, 30 million annual revenue in the very first years of the company, it is being an entrepreneur, and being a CEO, or a senior level executive are very different skillsets. And the challenge becomes to let go of being down at the tactical level. And in one particular case, I talked to, it was a CEO of a company. And I said I need you to be a CEO now. I mean, you're a great entrepreneur, and you've got the company this far, but you need to now start thinking about the long game, right? And you need to start thinking a little strategically. And maybe in five years from now you want to sell the company and move on to your next big adventure. Well, that's great. But the decisions that you make today are going to impact your ability to reach that goal at the end of the day, right?
Reynold Hoover:
And you need to start thinking about that rather than getting down on the tactical day to day decision making that's going on in your company. I mean, there's just too many things, and too many moving parts. I need you to start thinking up, and out rather than down and in. We have other people that you pay, and other people that you trust who can be down and in. And that is a really hard transition for people to make, especially very successful entrepreneurs. And that's not to say that successful entrepreneurs, aren't great leaders. There are many of them that are out there, but the ones that I've come across, I think have been able to make that shift from being a great entrepreneur, getting the idea together, getting people coalesced around it, and delivering on a product or a capability. And then starting to think more strategically. Those are the really successful ones.
Chris Roebuck:
You're absolutely right, because a couple of years ago I opened an entrepreneurial leadership conference in Bermuda, based on some of the work we did at UBS, with a challenge of trying to get corporate leaders to think in an entrepreneurial way and how that actually transformed performance. But at that conference, there were a lot of organizations who were started by an entrepreneur had started to grow, started to develop. And several of those entrepreneurs said their key challenge was that they weren't able to control everything. The cracks were beginning to appear.
Chris Roebuck:
And I just posed the question, "Well, hang on, should you be controlling everything? Now you've got 45 people", but it goes back to that fundamental point that I just introduced that no one and had ever taught them how to delegate. And because they didn't know how to delegate, they were frightened of delegating and didn't know they were supposed to delegate. So, the quick point for all you listeners out there, if you are frightened of delegating, or you don't delegate, delegation is your route to freedom once you can get it right, because then other people will do what needs to be done and you can then move up again.
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, that's exactly right. But in defense of them, those entrepreneurs, it's their baby that they created.
Chris Roebuck:
Oh, sure. Absolutely.
Reynold Hoover:
Right? But to your point the quicker that you can understand that you can trust, and empower your team and those people that are on your team who are doing it, the more time that you'll have to start thinking strategically, the more freedom you'll have to start thinking of the next great idea, and the next great product, and the next great capability, that's part of that entrepreneurial spirit that keeps the engine running in society. And it keeps our economy going is great creative thinkers, but you got to have that time, which at the C-suite level, having time set aside, time management, set aside for you to really take that half a day to think strategically, that's a critical capability that a lot of people whether they're in uniform, or they're in the private sector, don't have the luxury of doing.
Reynold Hoover:
And that's why I think some of these senior leader conferences that we talked to general officers about, we talked to them about time management, because it is so critical to block out time in your schedule to just think strategically, and have a minute to collect without being in that day to day grind of in the middle of the forest.
Chris Roebuck:
I think that's a really, really good point for everybody who's listening to note on the basis that if you guys are doing that for general officers in the United States military, you are not doing it for charitable reasons. You are doing it because it's critical to delivering success.
Reynold Hoover:
Because there's another piece of that. It's not just the time management of having a piece in your schedule on a weekly basis, or however frequently you can do it to think strategically. But there's another aspect of it. And it's leadership, leader wellness. And we spend a lot of time now at the general officer level, talking about leader wellness, and work life balance, because you got to take care of yourself. If you are not taking care of yourself, you cannot take care others, and you will not make sound decisions. And so we make that investment as well.
Chris Roebuck:
So, going back to the listeners, please listen to this, do not think that Reynolds point just applies to general offices in the US military. It [crosstalk 00:28:18] applies to you certainly, if you're C-suite, certainly if you are a team leader, because if you are a team leader anywhere, you should be taking out a little bit of time every week to reflect on what's happened, reflect on the future, and look for opportunity. And even as individuals, in terms of your own life, your own aspirations, and hopes, you need to take a little bit of time out. Because one of the reasons I seen so many failures amongst leaders in organizations of all types is because leaders didn't take time out, and they spent all their time firefighting down in the weeds. And particularly when some strategic threat sneaked up behind them, and they missed it because they were being distracted. That's where the challenge is. So, please, everybody listening, make sure you have some reflective time. And talking about those good organizations you mentioned culture earlier.
Chris Roebuck:
One of the things, again, where we see a difference in the military, but also a similarity is that the core ethos of what happens within the military is a culture based around we, not me. We are all here to work together. It's not about me. It's about us doing what needs to be done. The flip side is that some commercial organizations, it's very much more about me, not we, and this is about my career, me making money. And if by pure chance, everybody else benefits and the organization flourishes, that's great, but actually it's about me. And the contradiction between those two, I think, is powerful in that the military has to be we, not me, because of what it does, but successful commercial organizations that I've seen, success and all the data from everything, from empowerment to everything else like that shows that the more a commercial organization is we, not me, the more successful it is.
Chris Roebuck:
And my reflection on leading culture at UBS, the international bank, the restructuring of the London subway working in the UK national health service looking at what made hospitals successful. It was always that development of a we not me, ethos that sort of created a buzz that meant everybody wanted to work together. Is that what you've seen in terms of just that core ethos of why are we here?
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah. Culture is key. And I think at Donovan Capital Group, when we look to make investments in companies, part of what we do is we actually look to the culture of the organization, because as you said, if you are driven totally by the bottom line and you're driven by it's all about me, and not the organization, and not the organizational culture, and people aren't committed to the organization, you're doomed for failure. And at Donovan we'll look at the attrition rates at the mid and lower levels of the staff and the organization. And if there are hight nutrition levels, as I said, at the outset this isn't the day, and age where our parents grew up and they were committed to one company for the rest of their life.
Reynold Hoover:
People talk, and act with their feet. And if there's a high attrition level at the mid-level, and at the lower levels, that's a red flag. And there are problems in the culture of that organization. And I think it is absolutely critical that leaders at all levels be committed to developing the organization, to developing the people. And I go back to that word, inspiring others. That where the culture really gets bonded together in an organization.
Chris Roebuck:
The cultural element is so powerful. But your point about the, that you mentioned earlier, the toxic lead of the person who sort of fought their way to the top. To be blunt, even the most stupid people in an organization will notice a CEO who's managed to get to the boardroom via a corridor full of colleagues with knives in their backs. And that individual is not going to have the support, the genuine 100% support of the people in the organization. But leaders that use the things we've discussed, the we, not me. The emotion, the showing you care, the things that often can't be put down on a balance sheet or in a P&L are the ones that seem to succeed. And people say to me, "Well, why? Why is this?" And the answer is quite simple.
Chris Roebuck:
It's what our brains are hard wired to do. And the structure of the human brain hasn't changed much in 250,000 years, and what the neuroscience says is if somebody shows they genuinely care about you, somebody is trying to create a positive relationship with you, your brain will respond positively, because that's the way we are hardwired. So, for the people listening, this isn't, oh, it might happen. This is pretty much a hard wide neuroscience certainty. If you create we, not me. If you go out of your way to help, and support others, you will get reciprocation. And I'm sure you've seen the power of that in any number of situations where a new leader has come in, done that, and turned around a team.
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah, that's absolutely right. The power of relationships is so critical at every level of an organization. And even to somebody who is... I had an email exchange. We were setting up a conference, and this person and sent an email back. I had asked the question, and this person sent an email back and said, "I'm just the scheduler. I'll make sure your question gets answered." And I sent a note back right away. And I said, "You're not just a scheduler. You are a critical member of the team." And they sent a note back and said, "Thank you so much." And that's what makes a difference. And that really makes a difference when you genuinely recognize people for the value that they bring to the organization. And when you show that respect, and when you show that level of interest, it reflects, and people will react, and as you said, your brain positively reacts, and I think you'll see results.
Chris Roebuck:
I remember a story I was told by somebody who was very, very senior in Nissan about what he did when he went round visiting factories, and he's always walked round the shop floor. And before he was introduced to somebody by the sort of team leader, he'd asked the fundamental question, "So, who's that over there?" And they'd say, "Oh, this is so and so." "So have they got a family children? What are the sort of things they enjoy doing?" Just to see if that leader actually knew genuinely knew their team members. And I think that's a really valuable lesson for anyone listening. If you are a leader, you need to know your team members, because that allows you, to your point, to inspire them.
Reynold Hoover:
Yeah. Leadership is face to face. And we talk some about leadership visibility, and leadership really is face to face. In the army, we'd say, "Well, leadership starts in the barracks by the lieutenants, and the NCO's walking through the barracks, and understanding what the troops are doing." And I think that translates to the private sector. You could say leadership starts in the cubicle. When you and I grew up, and back in the day when you were at Sandhurst. And I was at West Point, we were studying Fortran as our computer language. And maybe even had the old punch cards. Life was so much easier because you had to get out, and see people, and talk to people and talk to those people that are really in the trenches doing the hard work right? Today, it's so much easier. You pick up your iPhone, you send them a text, "Hey, do this, do that." You can't. And I would say to your listeners out there you got to get off the internet. You got to get off the Instagram, the text messages, the emails, and you got to see the people.
Reynold Hoover:
And it's not so much leaders will send birthday cards to everybody on their birthday or an anniversary card. And it turns out that the leader really isn't doing that. It's their staff assistant in the office that's filling out those cards and keeping track of those things. That's not it. Sending somebody a birthday card on their birthday from the CEO, or the senior leader of the organization, that isn't it. Get up and get out of the office and walk around. And as you said, in your Nissan example, find out what that person in the corner is really doing, and that goes a long way.
Chris Roebuck:
And that's particularly to also for C-suite the visibility of leadership. I work with someone who's chief executive of an investment bank in the city of London. And when they walked in, in the morning, if there was any member of staff around like the cleaning staff, or the operation staff, the chief executive would go over and say, "Good morning", and talk to them, not just stroll straight past, thinking, "I'm the chief executive. I don't have to deal with these people." And that was so powerful, and to your point about the birthday cards, I did an interview with Paul Polman when he was a chief executive of Unilever every week Paul would sit down and write a handwritten note to a member of staff.
Reynold Hoover:
That's it.
Chris Roebuck:
Somewhere out in the organization, across the world who he had heard, had done something great, or had a really tough time with family tragedy, or whatever. And his boss, his first boss did that for him. And that single action early on in his career, empowered him to truly understand what a handwritten note from the CEO could do for the individual.
Reynold Hoover:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Chris Roebuck:
And for the people around that individual who saw the chief executive cared. So, I think that's so powerful. Finally, just from my perspective, could you think of one action that you think every leader listening could take to make themselves a better leader, and perhaps a little bit of a piece of advice for somebody in C-suite, what should they do?
Reynold Hoover:
Sure. So, a couple of things, and I don't know if it's just one action, but let me just start. So for every listener out there, I think now is the time, especially now, is the time to go back to that theme I've said at the very beginning, and that is commit yourself to continuous learning. You can never stop learning, because that is what keeps your brain going. That's what makes, and builds the profession that you might be in. So commit to a lifelong learning, whatever it might be. It might be just reading a book, right? In your particular field. It might... Whatever it is, commit to a lifelong learning. The next, I would say for every listener out there is to work on your network, right? So find who is two, three, maybe even four levels above you in an organization, and reach out to them, and ask them for 30 minutes of their time.
Reynold Hoover:
And you're not looking for a job. You're not looking for a promotion. You just want to spend 30 minutes of time with them to understand what they do, to understand their business, to understand how you might be able to support them, or where you might fit into that organization. If that comes up as a possibility, because it is the power of the network and relationships. And so every listener out there should take a moment, and try to find someone new. A quick example of that, is a general officer who I've known for years, just retired back in the spring, kind of struggling a little bit. And I told him, "Let's reach out to their network." I introduced him to a CEO of a company. And about a week later, he calls me up and says, "Hey, they're offering me a job." You never know. So I would say for every listener out there, look at your network and find somebody two, three, four levels above, and just send them a note and say, "Can I have 30 minutes of your time?"
Reynold Hoover:
I would say the next is for every leader out there, it goes back to refreshing your network, right? So, here, I'm asking you to go through your LinkedIn connections, maybe go through your, I date myself here when I say I go to my Rolodex and pull out my the business cards, right? And I still collect business cards, but go through that, find somebody in your network that you haven't talked to in a very long time, and reach out to that person and reconnect to them because you never know when they're going to... You might need their assistance. My staff used to kid me because they'd say, "Oh, the general's always got a guy or a gal to talk to", because they would come in with a problem, and I'd say "Just a minute", and I'd get up. I'd walk over to my desk. I'd look through my Rolodex. I'd pull out a business card and I'd say, "Go call this person. I think they might be able to help", and that's so true, right? And it happened to me in the middle of the 2017 hurricane season.
Reynold Hoover:
I needed some support from the Defense Logistics Agency. The director of DLA was a friend that I had in my network. And I picked up the phone, and called him and said, "Hey, General Williams, can you help us out?" And he so I would say for those people at the senior level, for leaders out there, go refresh your network, that you're going to need it. And finally, for those people in the C-suite those senior executives out there, it goes back, Chris, to what we said, get out of the office, and walk around.
Reynold Hoover:
Leadership by walking around, and seeing what people do, and meeting the people who are doing it for you on a daily basis, because they're the people that are making your organization successful. Today, in the COVID world, it's a little harder to do. Maybe you find somebody in the organization and you set up a Zoom conference with them. 30 minutes might be 15, and they're going to say, "Oh, my God the CEO wants to have a meeting with me. What am I going to do?" It's 15 minutes of your time in a day or 30 minutes. It makes a big difference.
Chris Roebuck:
That's great. And your comment about lifelong learning many years ago, [inaudible 00:44:34] I met a guy called Sir George Solti, who Maestro Solti, who was one of the greatest conductors in the world at the time. And when I spoke to him, he was in his mid 70's, and Maestro Solti said, "I learn something new when I'm working with orchestras, and musicians, every single day that I didn't know before. And learning something new is what inspires me to keep working, and keep doing what I do." And my view was if Maestro Solti, one of the greatest conductors in the world at 74, or 75 is saying to me, he is still constantly learning, then nobody, absolutely. Nobody who is listening under 75 should even think that they should stop learning.
Reynold Hoover:
That's right.
Chris Roebuck:
So, thanks for those ideas for action. And hopefully everybody listening has noted those. And all of you will go, and do at least one of them. Thank you so much for your insights, Reynold. That was really, really powerful, a very, very broad set of insights that everybody can take something away from. Is there anywhere where people can potentially get more of your insights at the moment?
Reynold Hoover:
There is, actually. So I'm on Let's Engage, which is a speakers bureau. You can find me there, you can connect with me on LinkedIn, and I can direct you to that particular website, but Chris, I just appreciate what you're doing in the work, in the leadership arena. It is of tremendous value, and Perspectives from the Top is just a fantastic podcast. Thanks for the honor of making your interviewee list.
Chris Roebuck:
It's my pleasure. The reality is that there are millions of people out there who deserve the right in their working, and personal lives to reach their full potential. And they will only do that within their working lives, if they have good leaders. So if through what you, and I, and the other guests on Perspectives from the Top do is to enable more people to have that best boss, and have fulfilling work lives, so they have great home lives, we've done our bit.
Reynold Hoover:
That's right. That's right. And if I can help in some small way, I'm happy to do it. Thanks, Chris.
Chris Roebuck:
My pleasure. Great to have you. Well, listeners, what can I say? There were so many interesting, and powerful insights, and some great ideas for action in what Reynold has just said. His vast wealth of experience across so many areas is really good at showing that there are consistent actions that will get the best from people, and deliver success for the organization, no matter where you are or what you do. Those two critical factors of being competent at doing your job, but also your ability to build relationships that engender trust. The importance of letting people get on with it. The interesting differentials between the military approach to leader, and the commercial approach, the importance of that reflective time, and as a leader, ensuring your own wellness to be able to help your people have their wellness as well.
Chris Roebuck:
I'm going back to that phrase that we've heard so many times before, about the importance of creating a we, not me culture. And finally his points on the importance of lifelong learning and using your network. I'm not going to pick out specifics at this point, but will do so in my reflection, but there is so much in what Reynold said that every single one of you out there can pick at least one, if not two, or three things that you can do as of tomorrow to help you be a better leader or even a better colleague. So, in a week, I'll give you a more depth view of the key takeaways from Reynold's interview, my insights, and three ideas for actions in my reflections from the top. If you've used any of your insights that you've got from previous guests, and they've helped you please send me your success stories. I've had some really great ones already about simple actions that you as listeners have implemented that have made a real difference to you day to day.
Chris Roebuck:
Also, don't forget to sign up on the website so that you don't miss any of the great future guests over the next year. Thanks for tuning in, check out the show notes from today's episodes and perspectivesfromthetop.com where you can not only enjoy additional resources from today's show, but all previous ones. If you haven't already subscribed to the show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your favorite podcast, so you don't miss any. And if you really enjoyed the show, please give us a five star rating, and review. Have a question, or comment? Let's discuss it. Message me on LinkedIn. Perspectives from the Top is produced in collaboration with Detroit Podcast Studios. So, have a successful week, use today's new learnings and actions, and remember it's onwards, and upwards. See you next time on Perspectives from the Top.